Laserscope Modification Just Finished!

[Lexat8]

No Problem, give me a month or so to finish writing it up, and after I submit not sure how long it will take for them to reply, but im also working on a product report too which needs to go in first to use the accession numbers in the variance app.

-Allen

Evening All!
This has got to be one of the best threads ever, in the historize of the hole intretrewebz.

lex

[gottaluvlasers]

Allen-

You and i spoke AGAIN about a week ago. I will admit, you *did* seem to be going in the right direction. but you still are a very naieve and unwilling to listen type of guy. You started out asking questions, good questions and every single answer i gave you was, "no, i dont think thats right." Or, "Are you sure?" or, "i will have to check on that." And most of the questioning is questions that should have been asked MONTHS (if not a year or more) *prior* to going out and purchasing this unit and *prior* to you using it!!!

This is where people are pissed off with you. This is where myself and other people with knowledge WELL above mine have just given up on you. Everyone seems to have the same experience with you...

you ask question(s). They give answer(s). You don't like answer(s). You attempt to provide a "work around" solution to get an answer that better suits your needs. This profession doesnt work like that. It never has, it never will. And you are dealing with some SERIOUS laser power that is extremely dangerous. People do not like that from "some kid" that boasts about being some hot shot DJ/Laser guy.

I am sure you're a cool guy. im sure you arent really this much of an a**hole. But your eagerness to get this thing show ready (which probably will NEVER happen in a legal manner) is what is REALLY scaring myself and most people here.

you asked me about product reports and variances again. The system and the projector BOTH need to have product reports, and variances.

The projector is an add on to the laser. unless you plan on building the projector on top of the laser as a whole enclosed system. Which i dont think is even possible with a laserscope (although, *this* i may be incorrect about. Steve or Pat can probably clarify for me).

ALL of my laser systems use certified projector enclosures. (LT1000, or LT500) the variance #'s for those (or accession #'s) is ##V-#### and #######-####

On top of those certifications/variances...the new laser system as a WHOLE needs its own variance. therefore, so will you. If you arent using a certified enclosure like the LT series, then whatever design you make and incorporate into your lscope will need its own product report. then on top of that, the Laser light show system as a whole will need its own variance.

you will need to do a product report, variance for that enclosure, Laser light show report, variance for your laser light show system.

If you keep coming here asking for help, PLEASE start showing some respect to the people who take the time to answer your questions and provide you some guidance.

I am telling you now, you WILL get inspected very rapidly with a 40 Watt laserscope at a show. i 110% guarantee it. and it will happen much sooner than later. the CDRH may not pay too much attention to smaller systems these days (as all the pros on here i am sure know) but a 40W scope!!?!?!???! oooohhhh yeah.....they are gonna be on you like white on rice! and if you try to hide shows, not report them, trust me...they WILL find out and at that point you are committing a crime. and they WILL nail you hard!!!

-Marc

[dsli_jon]

Hey Marc -

...and if you try to hide shows, not report them, trust me...they WILL find out and at that point you are committing a crime. and they WILL nail you hard!!!

No worries - Commander Boyd is aware of EVERYTHING about this kid, website, posts-here, 'modification' pics, home address, etc, etc - I can only hope for Allen's sake, the 'quiet' that he is experiencing right now, by not having heard from them, yet, it that they are just busy with larger tasks, and not that they are busy collecting 're-con' - either way, it's IN the que, and he assured me - they WILL take appropriate action. They are not too pleased with all the pointer-incidents, and while they do-acknowledge that LEGITIMATE, varianced Sho Co's pose no problem, they have things in the works to step-up enforcement.

Allen, I highly suggest you 'write faster' on your Variance app - it should take you not more than an hour, not a MONTH. Help IS available, but will be given on OUR terms, NOT yours. Follow instructions, respect your 'elders', and quit the BS 'name dropping' crap in posts ('dam I shouldda snagged that Sabre'...) - gimme a friggin break, you don't have a clue about what it would take to even hook it up, let alone are-qualified to OWN such a laser yet. Quit trying to PUSH, humble yourself, follow directions, and do it RIGHT. Cause, tell you what - first time I find out you've scalped a gig from us while you're still illegal? - the gloves are comin off...

J

[prodjallen]

Hey Marc, You are actually wrong about this, I called the cdrh reguarding this matter, and they said if the system incorporates the laser source and scanner system in the one enclosure, I would just file for that as a system in the product report then when I get the accession number for it, I would use that for the variance app. I have the scanners / beam collimator on the optical deck of the lscope which is going to be completely enclosed in 1/8" thick powder coated black aluminum with only the aperture window cutout, we own a powder coating facility, so everything metal will be powder coated matte black for reflection/scatter purposes. WHY does something have to be done one way that YOU say, thats like in Calc. (math) when you can solve a problem many ways, what if i find my way to be simpler to do the SAME job? The person who I spoke with at the cdrh (and yes I contact the correct department) specifically stated "other lasershow companies may try to make the applications harder then it really is, just make sure everything is compliant as the product report will guide you" I favor his opinion Marc why are you making it harder then it really is? AND as for you Jon, I dont care who you know and who you told what, "Boyd?" LOL, I also remotely work with Multiple police agencies and I have actually caused a Lieutenant to lose his shirt and tie (fired) due to safety complications unrelated to lasers though. And if you take this as complete bull-shit, well time will really tell then... "you don't have a clue about what it would take to even hook it up" Actually buddy, I can hook up all your ion lasers with my eyes closed. Being an asshole isnt going to get you anywhere, oh and look up the word Slander Please, Thanks. Maybe you should actually meet me, so you can stick your dick in someone elses asshole.

[Laser Zone]

Here we go again !!

[Laser Zone]

Allen let me ask you a question. How do you advertise on your web site that you do laser shows and dont have a variance. Thats ballsy and stupid, especially coming to this site where pro laser companies talk . Thats like walking into the ghetto dressed up like a ku klux klan member . Just get your shit straight Allen and no crowd scanning !!!!!!!!!

[prodjallen]

I havent done crowd scanning with any high power laser (most was class 3b, which is the cheap chauvet fat-beam laser) and dont plan to do any with high power lasers, so I dont know where you get that notion from...

[dsli_jon]

Hey Mr BuFu! -

AND as for you Jon, I dont care who you know and who you told what, "Boyd?" LOL, I also remotely work with Multiple police agencies and I have actually caused a Lieutenant to lose his shirt and tie (fired) due to safety complications unrelated to lasers though.

Wow. Impressive. But if you actually DID know what you were talking about, you would know exactly who Commander Boyd is and what relevance he has to this discussion. But you think he is police. Truly, Allen, your knowledge-base is staggering.... Don't worry, I am sure the Commander will introduce himself to you.

And if you take this as complete bull-shit, well time will really tell then...

My sentiments exactly.

"you don't have a clue about what it would take to even hook it up" Actually buddy, I can hook up all your ion lasers with my eyes closed.

#1, I am not your 'buddy', #2, I would LOVE to see you 'hook up all my ion lasers with your eyes closed' - I'd even be so kind as to pass you a fire extinguisher...

My comment was based on your irrelevant post over in 'Holy Crap':

... On the Sabre, a while ago there was a BIG Monster Sabre Argon (not WL) on ebay, [BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH] ....I wanted to get it, but the 480v isnt always available, and people dont want to pay for an extra genset to run on the 277/480v 3ph when they have a 220/240v system going usually. Now that I look back I should have gotten the damn thing...

Could you please explain to me how you would go about getting the required 460-480V to run a Sabre, when all you have is 208-240V? And, really - show us your prowess, here - don't go ask someone, just answer the question, go ahead...

Being an asshole isnt going to get you anywhere,

Dude, do you have some kind of machine that percieves what everyone wants to say to you, before they actually say it? Wow, amazing, it really works!

oh and look up the word Slander Please, Thanks.

So, then, you were lying when you said you performed shows in public - with your unvarianced Laserscope - - with no variance to perform laser shows in public?? And besides, I don't believe it can be considered 'slander' to, for example, tell the Police that someone is using an unregistered gun - for even 'non-criminal ' / fun-only purposes - and with no license... So, not really sure what you're getting at, there...

Maybe you should actually meet me, so you can stick your dick in someone elses asshole.

Uh, if you're offering me anal sex, Allen, umm, no thanks. I'm happily married, and my Wife is quite hot, so I'm all set...

...Waiting your answers, ProStool...

j

[prodjallen]

3 Letters / Words LOL!

And if you were reading carefully, you would see that I would/use another genset running on 3ph 480v for a sabre/171 setup, a step-up transformer would mean 2x more amperage at 240/277v which would be a waste and if you didnt know square-d makes them for your info if you think one that big doesnt exist, in buildings all large facilities use square-d stepdowns for 3phase 208v distribution, im sure you knew that, since you claim to know everything... nice try tho

[gottaluvlasers]

Hey Marc, You are actually wrong about this

OK- I am wrong.

if the system incorporates the laser source and scanner system in the one enclosure

The Laser is not incorporated in the same enclosure. I was under the impression that the laser was a *SEPARATE* unit from the projector housing. Isn't this what you told me a few weeks ago when we chatted?

In addition to that, even if you build the enclosure on top of the Lscope, the Lscope itself (and this is the part I may be wrong on, as i said to you much ealrier in our attempted conversations) needs to have its own certification because at that point the Lscope *by itself* is consdered a laser source and can be operated *on its own* without the projector enclosure. At this point, from my understanding, the laser is no longer considered an "OEM" laser and is no longer considered a *COMPONENT* of a lser system.

A laser is considered OEM and/or a component of a certified system is it is inoperable outside of its enclosure (or inoperable without serious modifications and or "tweaking.") This is why a Laser module that is sold by itself has to be sold as either an "OEM" Laser module, defined as: being incororated into an end product that meets all safety requirements and regulations. or sold as a certified laser system. In which the laser module by itself must meet all safety requirments. (key switch, interlock, lables, emmision indicator, delayed lasing, certification)

If someone wants to sell a laser system that does not meet the above 2 criteria, they must be sold without a power source. meaning for example...if someone wants to buy a 500mW/532 off of me for lab work (no projector or enclosure), but they don't want to go through the certification process, i have to sell them JUST the laser head with no power source. I have done this MANy times in the past by the way with many universities. As soon as they tell me that the laser is going to be used for lab use (no enclosure) i ask them if they will be certifying their product. if they say, "no" then i sell them the head with no power. its the law.

your Lscope is imo, the same thing. the lscope *by itself* can and is a beam source. it is not incorporated into an projector. if the projector on the top of your system is not present, can the scope still lase and produce a beam? if the answer is yes, than the lscope on its own *should* be considered a non-oem laser and be obligated to satisfy the rules/regs of 21cfr part 1040.

WHY does something have to be done one way that YOU say

I have told you from the first time you contacted me i am in no way a variance/certification pro. But i know the regulations and i have dealt with fda/cdrh many many times. there are loopholes everywhere and there are always more questions than answers when it comes to ALL of this! Do not twist my words and assume i am trying to say my way is the right way and every other way is incorrect. I give you answers based on the knowledge i have. based on the knowledge and experience i have with certifying other products and sytems. and based on the knowledge experience i have learned form *LISTENING* to other professionals when they speak and try to impart their wisdom on myself or anyone else!

But you always question everything i have said. everything everyone else has said. this is what pisses everyone off! you ask questions but you always try to find the easier road to the same destination. in this profession and with this type of equipment, the easier road (even if it does get you to the same destination) is not usually the more responsible avenue to take!

thats like in Calc. (math) when you can solve a problem many ways, what if i find my way to be simpler to do the SAME job?

Solving a complex math problem with a calculator is easy. Solving a calculus problem the "easy way" may yield a correct answer. however, you may not fully understand the concepts involved if you skip steps or take shortcuts to get a result. With a calculator dificult math problems can be done very quickly. HOWEVER...to solve it by theory and on paper proves that yo uknow the material and proves that you understand the concepts involved! Both solutions may be correct. but only the longer solution will prove that you understand the material and can find a mistake if one arise or if one is questioned!

This, i think is most people biggest problem with you! you are looking for the easiest way to start blasting around powerful lasers. forget crowd scanning. i dont think youre gonna crowd scan. i know you arent that stupid! but what you are doing is still dangerous. and in all honesty, its almost insulting to most laserists that you dont want to learn this profession. If you are going to be a part of it, you should respect it and WANT to know all of this.

It reminds of me of nightclub DJ's that call themselves "DJ's" because they steal all of their music off of the internet and because mommy and daddy bought them a pair of CDJ1000's. they have no respect for their artform.

The person who I spoke with at the cdrh (and yes I contact the correct department) specifically stated "other lasershow companies may try to make the applications harder then it really is

honestly, that statement is probably true to a point. I do that. Ya know why? its so i protect my ass and so i know the process.

I favor his opinion Marc why are you making it harder then it really is?

LOL- i'm not making it hard. you asked me questions, i answered them to the best of my knowledge. you just didn't like the answers you got. of course i may have errors in some of my answers. but the errors i may have had were errors for the positive. not errors just to make you practice your penmanship on federal licensing papers. i am not the one who came up with these rules and regulations. i am just here as a pawn to try and interpret them to the best of my knowledge and to the safety and professionalism of my guests and business.

everything in life has an easy solution and a hard solution. try the hard solutions once in a while. you may just realize that you may not know everything you think you may know!!!

-Marc