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Thread: Wicked Lasers' new lasers

  1. #21
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    @gottaluvlaers...

    Did you actually read that Low Level Laser Therapy page that you linked to...

    Don't get me wrong...until it is proven to me with actual facts...
    I have a hard time believing that shining an uncollimated low level red laser beam
    on my shin will be beneficial to any medical condition I may have...

    But to be fair... that was an article written by by Dr. Lawrence DelRe, D.C.
    and not Wicked Lasers.. even though it's on their site... It is just a Laser related
    article... IMO

    I also did not see "open cut healing power!" that you refer to... stated in that article...
    The article also does not mention anything about using a collimated laser pointer to
    do any therapy mentione in that article...

    Correct me if I'm wrong and misread that article...

    BTW... at the prices of the new Wicked Lasers... I think just that would put a damper
    on the young inexperienced laser enthusiast from getting one into their
    hands..
    Granted... you don't need to be young and penniless to be a Moron....


    Jerry
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  2. #22
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    hey jerry-

    i respect your position. and in all honesty, i DID NOT read the entire article. the point of me posting tha tlink and that article was not for the actual intellectual value of the article. i know, you know, most people DO KNOW that lasers are used medically. of course we know that SOME PROPER LASERS are used to treat skin ailments, hair issues, blemishes, tattoo removal, and MANY other medical conditions. HOWEVER- by posting that article and even some of the pictures, a "not-so-bright" (and we ALL know there are PLENTY of those people...) would assume that, "hey...i can use this laser to cure my wound." a laser is a laser right?

    wicked lasers sells LASER POINTERS. they have NO knowledge and NO authority over medical grade lasers their applications, their specifications, their uses or their possible side effects for using them in specific situations.

    If i am shopping for a laser pointer, why am i seeing a medical grade comparison of "low level laser therapy" and how to cure low sperm count? why is Wicked lasers quoting such a professional level paper? is it STRICTLY just for its educational value? it doesnt seem it to me.

    it would be similar to wanting to buy a a razor blade for my work shop and seeing a paper written on the home depot website on how to perform surgery and how to properly make incisions (sp?) without leaving a long scar. i mean, a razor blade is a razor blade right? if the doctors use a razor to cut open the rib cage of a patient, than i should be safe to assume that my razor blade can make an incision to fix something with me!?!? it seems silly, but its the same.

    2 similar products that have many uses that in some instances require no skill and/or professional training. and in other instances require YEARS of training to use as the tool it was designed for. not only that, but the razor blade i buy from home depot, is NOT the exact same razor blade that is used to make incisions in someone chest. they are made COMPLETELY and MAGNIFICENTLY different! Nor are they compared to one another. 1 is a medical tool. 1 is a tool to open a box of candles.

    and wicked DOES STILL boast "open cut healing power."
    Please see HERE and scroll down to the "performance comparison."

    Ok, now it has that pretty little asteriks next to it that says, "Do not attempt without Physicians Consent." But, are you serious??? COME ON!!!!!

    Patient: "Hey doc, i got this cut on my arm that is infected, and its bleeding like crazy. What should i do??"

    Doc: "Its ok Johny, dont you have one of those laser pointers? just shoot that on your arm. you'll be fine!"



    the very fact that wicked advertises this as a service of its pointers is ridiculous. look at some of its other facts...

    accoridng to them, a 55mw laser can be seen over 15 miles away? REALLLLY???? is that so???

    Daytime smoke detection?? HUHHHH??????

    95mW can be seen over 50 miles away?? 40 Watt yags would have a hard time being seen from >50 miles away!!!!!!!!!!

    200mW over 100 miles away???

    according to them, the only thing they CANT do is wipe your ass after taking a dump or cook you dinner.

    again, i AM NOT against pointers. pointers need to be marketed as POINTERS. they shouldnt be marketed and promoted as swiss army knives of the GODS!!!

    it is irresponsible and dangerous and FALSE!!!

    i pose an experiment....

    i am about 45 miles away from new york city. i think "VJAIWAZ" lives in new york city (or right outside), so thats about 50-55 miles.

    i am going to take 5 different lasers STARTING AT 500mW up to 5 watts and shine them toward New york. who wants to bet that he doesnt see a damn thing!?!?!?!

    THIS IS MY issue with wicked and some other pointer manufacturers. they are being sold and promoted as these wonderful marvels that can do anything and everything. they sell them to anyone and everyone despite their little disclaimers.

    if a 200mW pointer can cure open cuts, does that mean our multi-watt systems can cure cancer and grow back limbs??

    and jerry, lol, sorry man....90% of this isnt geared toward you. pretty mnuch just the first paragraph that said, "i repsect your position." after that was just general ranting.

    -Marc
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  3. #23
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    I definitely see where you're coming from, but I'd like to propose that perhaps instead of "heal" they meant "cauterize".. I've seen some mighty strange translations come from China.. Just a thought, not trying to add fuel to the fire. Sounds painful in any case, but I don't see anythong ethically wrong with saying that a high-powered laser could be used to cauterize a wound, so long as your doctor consents..

  4. #24
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    I really don't think cauterizing falls under the category of "low level laser therapy." And 300mW is not a "low level laser"

    They do admit here (after some digging) "WARNING: Wicked Lasers are not FDA approved for medical use in the US"

  5. #25
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    Hey Marc...

    no offence taken... I was looking for that "open wound healing" statement
    and couldn't find it... I would classify that as BS as well...

    I agree with you... by posting that "by DR" article a "not-too-bright" as you
    so eloquently put it could take this as actual fact and misinterpret the
    meaning as even I see it...

    Many years ago a friend of mine wanted to stop smoking.. she took "Laser
    Therapy" that consisted of the DR??? shining a red laser on her forehead in
    a circular motion for 15 minutes at $50.00 a shot...
    She actually stopped smoking for a few months... and I didn't have the heart
    to tell her she was duped... As far as I'm concerned it was her belief in the
    thrrapy and not the therapy itself that stopped her from smoking...

    Like I said before I need actual fact before I believe that red laser therapy
    is medically beneficial...
    As it stands now... other than for surgery by a qualified dr. there is no-one
    that is going to appraoche me with a laser for health reasons..

    I suppose there will always be people that will believe anything they read...

    BTW... Ive had one of those 100mW therapeutic laser in the shop for repair
    There were 3 red (probably 660nm) 5.6mm Laser Diodes around the outer
    circumference of the 1-1/2" diameter head... with out a focussing lens...
    just a raw diverging LD beam..
    At about 1" from the head it looked like a weak red floodlight but coherent.
    The output of the LDs was only 25mW each with fully charged batteries...

    Even therapeutic lasers are under spec it seems...

    Jerry
    See the LaserBee II and all other LaserBee LPM products here....
    All LaserBee Laser Power Meter Products

    New 3.2Watt RS232/USB LaserBee II LPM REVIEW


    Always in stock and ready to ship....
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers View Post
    i dont think my pointers can shoot 80+ miles which is another false ad that wicked boats and it annoys the CRAP out of me.
    Quote Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers View Post
    accoridng to them, a 55mw laser can be seen over 15 miles away? REALLLLY???? is that so???
    95mW can be seen over 50 miles away?? 40 Watt yags would have a hard time being seen from >50 miles away!!!!!!!!!!
    While I agree that overall there are several misleading claims on the Wicked Lasers site, the examples you listed above are actually very close to accurate. It's all in how you define "being seen"...

    I assume that you are defining the term from the point of view of an observer standing next to the laser looking for the reflected spot. And in that case, you are correct: you will not be able to see the spot even if it's only a mile away. But this is not the only way to define "being seen".

    A 1 mw red HeNe laser can easily be seen at a distance of over a mile. (I've actually performed this experiment myself.) The difference is that the laser was 1 mile away, and I was looking TOWARDS the laser. Sure the beam had spread out to a very wide spot, but the bright red flash was still easy to spot. With this in mind, I have no doubt that a 50 mw laser would be visible to the human eye at a distance of 15 miles, assuming minimal dust or moisture in the air to scatter the beam.

    Now, from a physics standpoint I find the whole argument about "how far the beam travels" to be hilarious. What, exactly, constitutes a "beam"? After all, we've fired a laser at the moon and detected the return signal. Granted, we're talking about a much more powerful laser, but we're also talking about a round trip distance of over a half million miles! And we still detected the "beam". Not with our eyes, of course, but with a telescope and a photomultiplier tube.

    So really, the whole "how far does the beam travel" question is rather pointless unless you define how you're detecting it. And if you decide that the detection limit is the human eyeball, then you only need about 6 photons to be able to detect a beam. (The eye is actually sensitive enough to respond to a single photon, but the brain needs several stimuli to count it as something that is "seen".) So how far will a 50 mw beam travel before it's down to a strength of just 6 photons at the diameter of a human pupil? Pretty darn far... (Now do you see why this is so absurd?)

    There are better things to argue about on the Wicked site (such as their medical claims) than just the distance issue. Because depending on how you define it, the physics are actually on their side.

    Adam

  7. #27
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    Adam-

    i LOOOVE arguning with you. its like arguing with my brother without the, "Well, YOOOU'RE the dummy!!!" You can argue any point and still be educational. thats why i LOVE this palce here!!!

    ok, now that i said that, we need to argue again...


    "TECHNICALLY" this and "TECHNICALLY" that is what gets companies in trouble. "TECHNICALLY" LaserWorld makes 5 Watt RGB projectors out of 3 200mW Lasers. "TECHNICALLY" the lasers under the BEST possible un-godly circumstances could produce 5 Watts for 3/10ths of a second. "TECHNICALLY" they didnt lie. "TECHNICALLY" the laser is "THEORETICALLY" capable to produce 5 Watts.

    But it never will.

    "TECHNICALLY" a 55mW laser could be seen as some glimmer of light about 15 miles away? Ok, Ill give you that! HOWEVER---Where does it state that that circumstance is ONLY achievable if you are looking TOWARD the source, on a dry day, with VERY little particulate in the air, and with VERY little polution?? Again, it goes back to the deceiving aspect. And THATS what PISSES ME OFF about Companies. Whether it is lasers or cars or Computers.

    "X" car gets an estimated EPA of 35 MPG. Ok, under test conditions, with high test gas, rolling down a hill, in a vaccuum, with an avg speed of 65 mph set by a computer on a PERFECT day with the wind blowing at its back side in some updraft. in other words, you, me and 99.999999% of the rest of the world will NEVER, EVER remotely come close to those claims!!!

    "TECHNICALLY" anything can achieve ANYTHING under the "proper conditions" theory (within obvious limits).

    For wicked to claim quite simply that its 200mW green "LASER POINTER" can be seen 100+ miles is quite simply absurd!!!! you may understand the pupil response to light propogation in the chroma field of flux capacitance. (whatever!!?!?!?!? LOL...) but again, 99.9% of the world who sees these claims will say WOWWWW.....if i buy this teeny tiny AA battery operated Super Duper Laser of the gods, NOT ONLY can i perfrom surgery on myself, but i can shoot laser beams across town and across states and signal E.T. on the planet "Xenophobo."

    the claims are NOT substantiated with PRACTICAL, REAL WORLD, USER UNDERSTANDABLE facts and data. it isnt right!!! its misleading and it is a BIG reason why you and i face ALOT of the crap BS we face with our LEGITIMATE Laser uses on a day to day basis!!!

    Wicked needs to do the right thing and sell these RESPONSIBLY. Market them as NOTHING MORE than "Laser Pointers." and stop the crap that these things are tools of the immortals.

    i will say publically now....I have seen MANY wicked products. they honestly are TOP NOTCH. they are GREAT quality. That company lost EVERY BIT of my respect though becasue it went from a "Laser Pointer" manufacturer to

    a light show laser manufacturer to a smoke alarm hazard tool finder to a surgery tool for hospital rooms to landing runway light company for 747's to a fireworks fuse igniting system to a self medicating medical tool for 15 year olds to use at recess in school.

    ALLLL this form a battery operated pen laser system...

    -Marc

    Adam- love ya brotha!!!
    http://www.laserist.org/images/ildalogos/ILDA-logo_colored-beams_Corporate_150w.jpg

    ILDA- U.S. Laser Regulatory Committee

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    • KVANT Laser Modules & Laser Systems
    • X-Laser USA
    • CNI Lasers
    • Cambridge Technology & Eye Magic Professional Scanning Systems

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  8. #28
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    Wink

    Sounds like we have found an outdoor extraciricular nightime LEM activity... To see how far a laser is visible...
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

  9. #29
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    I think the term "seen" needs a better definition in this context. Are we talking about seeing the beam itself at many miles distance, or are we simply talking about being able to detect the light from the laser at extreme distance if it is directed straight towards the receiving point?

    I can't say where I ran across the information, but once I read that a 5mW HeNe is visible from orbit when the beam is pointed directly at the observer, but if the aim is off even slightly, nothing. Also, the beam is NOT visible in this case for three reasons: the laser is very weak, has divergence and there are no impurities in a vacuum.

    Given the fact that the light output of most lasers exceeds (sometimes vastly) that of an equivalent portion of the suns surface (if the source of the beam is 2mm wide, then the light output exceeds that from a 2mm diameter portion of the sun's surface) it's not at all outside the realm of possibility that the light from a laser would be visible at extreme distances so long as the laser is pointed directly at the observer.

    Of course there are a plethora of variables that affect such a scenario, so generally speaking lasers aren't easily visible at extreme distances, but it not impossible. I have heard of and seen experiments involving long-distance (10-15 mi.) high-speed data transmission using relatively low powered laser systems (<50mW) by radio amateurs and others.

  10. #30
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    Lightbulb

    Guys... this is advertising; what do you expect? There is a sliver of truth and they will use it. I am not saying it is right, but welcome to capitalism.

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