ALC909 Whitelight Pictures :0)

[aijii]

We have an alc909, running off a similar setup to what you have pictured here... argon, but it makes 3.7watt at 25A tube current. (max we should really push out of that little psu for lengthy periods)..

[dsli_jon]

'ello, Chaps..

First, permission from Jim (smog) to 'lightly threadjack'? I'll @$$ume-so but if this bugs ya, just lemme know and I'll edit my posts and make a new thread, k? ... Really, I just wanna pass-along some helpful '411' to these blokes, but since it could-appear like 'blatant capitalism', I feel the need to respectfully ask 'permission to use your soapbox' for a minute... cool? Lemme know...

OK, here goes:

Cash on the nail in central Liverpool,

Sir Dan - since it appears that you are soon-to-be the proud Papa of this little beauty , I might suggest this fine piece of kit, HERE

In our NY shop, we have the 'guts' of one of these little SP units that should run your laser, there, all-day, closed-loop, off of 220-230V, 1Ø @ probably ~5-6A, tops. (the one in this pic is the 110V model - the 'guts' we have in NY are the 220-230V model pump / circuitry, etc, but it is all the same size / form-factor, etc)

We used to use the 110V-version to do small club jobs in the past, and ran a Lexel 88 Argon in a hot-club enviro all-night @ 35A with zero 'downtime'... it will also run an older, water-cooled Laserscope KTP, quite-well, too... they're quite the nice way to not have to 'deal' with sourcing house-water and running hose / drain (other than the small 'closed-loop' between this unit and your laser...)

Though you would have to build your own 'chassis / housing' for it, I have a full set of drawings / measurements we took from the 110V one, in-case we ever wanted to build a housing up - I can also throw-in a nice 1/4"-thick 6061 alum. baseplate we cut to the perfect-size for a chassis/housing base, 'on the house'...

PM-me if you're interested - this is really not much of a 'shameless plug' for $$ - I am truly much more interested in the priceless shop-space in NY - it's a minefield in there! I'll offer it to you @ cost, since we never used it beyond testing (since it was the 220V-version - bought it from a supplier without realizing this one was only good for 220-240 ...And, prolly wouldn't cost too-much to ship to the UK, cause it's all broken down - complete, the little '1461' h-ex was only about ~75#...

Lemme know...

peace..
J

(lemme know if you want me to 'move' this, Jim, ok, m8?

[dsli_jon]

Hey Diachi -

...I was hoping for an RGB you see...

PERMISSION TO THREAD-JACK AGAIN, CAP'N JIM?!

Umm, do you by any chance, have the ability to get / access 3Ø (three-phase) power, there at your fine-locale in Bonny Scotland?

...Reason I ask, is we are about to list, FS, 2 of these, HERE, and you could have the one that does ~2.8W, of nearly all the lines this alc-does (though that is one sweeet little rig, Jim! for probably about £600. or so - even though it would probably take another £300. to ship it to Scotland, you'd still likely be all-in at about the same price as that alc...

Now, yes, I will certainly concede that a Coherent Purelight is a bit of a 'beast' compared to the alc - I mean, you are gonna need 208-240V AC, 3Ø, @ 50A (max) and 2.5 gpm of water, just-to light it up - but if you are really jonesing to get into a WL ion, this could be a 'relatively cheap' way to do it - Not, perhaps, quite as 'refined' a laser as, say, Rob (stanwax)'s SP 168 - those babies are works of art - but in this case, you don't have the risk of trying to ship an all-glass tube across the Pond... Purelight metal-ceramic tubes are famously quite rugged and-all, and especially these particular I-70s have a nice color bal + yellow, since they were customized for Laserium-shows....

The other thing I should tell you, up-front, is that these Purelights are really old - definitely ~2-3K+ hours on the current tubes, so they might (most-likely) give you 2K hours or more, before you'd need a re-gas, but that is why they are being offered 'on the cheap'... Good as a 'hobbiest / education-opportunity' laser (they DO work perfectly / have great color, still), but maybe Not-So-Good as a 'gotta feed my wife and kid with WL-ion shos every weekend or I die' laser... knowhatimean?

So, lemme know about the 'first step' (the 3Ø), there - again, NOT about the $$, here, just really need to clean out some stuff, asap (we're moving the CA-shop, for one thing ... have a few interested parties over here, too, so no worries, either way... just, if this might be of help to get you into ions (...and in-spite of the 'pain in the neck of water / 3Ø, HERE's why... this could be a win-win (you get 2.5W+ of WL, we recoup space and a few quid for our trouble... )

....We now return to our regularly-scheduled threadjack...

peace..
j

[DMills]

Those are sweet lasers....
Couple of things to watch:

1) The three phase required is **Probably** 208V DELTA, which implies a rather heavy transformer to convert down from the 415V (or 400V depending on who you believe) version we use.

2) The power supplies are IIRC a monster, with a humongous linear pass bank on a big water cooled plate. It is possible that in the ~10 Years since I played with I90s in anger, there has been a small, neat, lightweight switchmode supply released that will sup on 400V directly, but certainly the old version was big, butch and fecking heavy.

Obviously the transformer primary given the conversion from 400 ->208, only needs to be good for about 30A, so you can run these off a 32A three phase feed.

Neither are show stoppers (And I would have been tempted had I not just given Jim a pile of cash), but you do need to know what you are getting into, these are serious lasers.

Regards, Dan.

[dsli_jon]

Hey Dan (and by-extension, Diachi...

Those are sweet lasers....
Couple of things to watch:

1) The three phase required is **Probably** 208V DELTA, which implies a rather heavy transformer to convert down from the 415V (or 400V depending on who you believe) version we use.

Dude - thanks for the 'catch' ya know, I was just re-reading over an email to send another PL-er, and it finally hit me - I've been out of 'habit' (from quoting show-specs to Clients all ding-dong-day ) just typing '208-240' without even thinking - some of their PSUs, specifically, do spec only 208 +/- 10%, NOT > 240, However these 'newer' PSUs Spec 190V (!) - 230V (240V, yes, would be 'pushing it') but really don't 'care' if it is delta or wye (until you get to the Skylight/Sabre-level lasers...)

...But, 400V?? I thought most of Europe was more-commonly 230-240? Or, it that just what you would typically 'spec' on a show there, to 'require' less amps?

2) The power supplies are IIRC a monster, with a humongous linear pass bank on a big water cooled plate. It is possible that in the ~10 Years since I played with I90s in anger, there has been a small, neat, lightweight switchmode supply released that will sup on 400V directly, but certainly the old version was big, butch and fecking heavy.

Yeah, they've come down to about 75# (the OEM supply for the I-70s), and the newer-still 'slimline' one, is smaller, but a bit heavier (~85#). But you are right - the old OEM I-90 supplies were beasts ... below is a roadcased pic of the I70-style...not too bad at all...

Obviously the transformer primary given the conversion from 400 ->208, only needs to be good for about 30A, so you can run these off a 32A three phase feed.

Also true, we typically run them off 240 in the shop, with a small bucker down to 208 on a 40A breaker... in the 'field', we usually spec wye and 50A min...

Neither are show stoppers (And I would have been tempted had I not just given Jim a pile of cash), but you do need to know what you are getting into, these are serious lasers.

I second that, hence, first the questions (to see where we are 'at' ), then go from there...

So, Diachi - still ready to 'jump-in' to ions? IMO, they're still worth all the 'schooling' / hassle ...

thanks for the backup, Dan
peace...
j

[Psi]

...But, 400V?? I thought most of Europe was more-commonly 230-240?

I think he was talking about 3 phase which is ~400v line to line

[DMills]

Europe is 230/240 single phase (where you guys see 120ish), phase to neutral, but 400/415V phase to phase.
We dont do that single phase centre tap thing that you guys do, so here there is nothing quite equivalent to your 120-0-120 arrangement.

Thus for single phase we can produce 230/240V trivially, but three phase is always 400/415V phase to phase.

My recollection is that we always needed a large transformer to produce the 208V phase - phase required for the coherent supplies.

Regards, Dan.

[dsli_jon]

Hey Gents -

Europe is 230/240 single phase (where you guys see 120ish), phase to neutral, but 400/415V phase to phase.
We dont do that single phase centre tap thing that you guys do, so here there is nothing quite equivalent to your 120-0-120 arrangement.

Thus for single phase we can produce 230/240V trivially, but three phase is always 400/415V phase to phase.

My recollection is that we always needed a large transformer to produce the 208V phase - phase required for the coherent supplies.

Ahh, eye-see we've never done anything 3Ø in Europe - only ever 230-240V-stuff - any gigs that ever came-up that required 3Ø lasers, we just x-sold that aspect to a bigger partner-Co. and supplied just an Op or programming, etc - I mean, what would the point be (unless a big tour or something where it might be warranted) of shipping a Sabre or 171 from US > Europe, when there are certainly plenty of well-qualified Co's there, ya know? I never even thought to ask how it 'got done', just @$$umed it was 230-240 Ø-Ø, like here...Crazy that one can be in biz for 16+ years and have a detail like that slip thru the cracks of your notice... ...Thanks for the 'enlightenment'...

So, yeah, I see how that would be a bit tricky - even though you do have a bit-wider input-range option of 190V (yeah, later, taco...) to 230V with the I-70 supply, it would not exactly be a 'wall-wart' But like you said, not a 'show stopper', but certainly more of a factor to consider in weighing-in on using a 3Ø-only system, there...

I recollect Coherent made a 1Ø supply, but we never owned one - we always used Am 909-switchers with the likes of I-90s, etc. for any app that required 1Ø - in fact, still have a show-rig that we can use for 1Ø-only gigs...works quite well...

...But OPSL will make it aaall better... I imagine a 7-8+ line - affordable - OPS-unit in the 15-20W+ Class w/in 2-3 yrs... yeah, I know there are 38W Arctos, etc, but I am talking a *REAL* replacement for an ion, in-terms of beam-specs, near (or better) PCAOM-quality modulation linearity/speed, etc and inherent-lines... when I see native 560 / 577 or 476 / 488 coming out of an Arctos, then I might think about their product-line..

Anyhoo, I think I've jacked Cap'n Jims' thread enough, here.. thanks for the 411...

ciao
J

[smogthemog]

It's all relevant info to the hobby so PLEASE don't worry about it

[Stoney3K]

Europe is 230/240 single phase (where you guys see 120ish), phase to neutral, but 400/415V phase to phase.
We dont do that single phase centre tap thing that you guys do, so here there is nothing quite equivalent to your 120-0-120 arrangement.

How do you think the distribution boxes on the streets are wired? Single phase for each house, three houses for a 3ph 16A connection.

Double- and three-phase connections to a house rig aren't uncommon here in NL, especially with electric cooking appliances. I've seen plenty of 230-0-230 installations, and 230-230-230-0 (3P+N+E) connections are commonplace in PA equipment like dimmer racks and amplifier systems.

Running one phase under no-load conditions will give you a hell of an imbalance though, which will probably screw up the voltage level on your neutral conductor, if it's not connected to anything on the other end. (And I've seen plenty of those, mostly unvoluntary!)