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Thread: Mega RGB via KTP / Dye / 445... Discuss...

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    Indeed. I'm thinking, however, to experiment with a hi-speed, variable 'chopper' on the blue-side... that-way, you could easily 'custom tune' the blue 'pulses' to what is going to be fairly 'predictable / consistent' pulse-trains from both the green and red... (not sure what sort of 'delay' may-be introduced thru the red-process, if-any, vs the greens' pulse-timing.. dunno, no data on that at the moment... )

    ...and, like you say, it might not really 'matter', since, even-if you somehow got the three sources to 'blend' perfectly, timing-wise, it's all gonna change once you blow them thru retro-style blanking and scans... I've had some scans look very-nearly perfectly-cw, and some look quite 'dashy', depending on the 'interfernce' from the scan-rate, point-count, etc...

    Sometimes, however, you can use this to your 'advantage' - one of the fx-modules we developed for our 'conversion-systems' a few-years back, was what we dubbed the 'sky-scan' - basically, a large-mirror 'cone-scanner' with a variable-speed motor, that could be attached to the chassis / projector, and when you scanned even simple-graphics onto it, and 'played' the scan-rate off the motor-speed rate off the pulse-train, you could create some mind-blowing fx, that you could vary on the-fly - like, turn 5 simple dots, in a 'star formation', into 'dancing cheetoes' ... made for incredible aerials that would-otherwise take hours to program / animate, ... ie:

    Attachment 23301Attachment 23298Attachment 23299Attachment 23300...and then, 'play' w/ scan-rate vs the Q-Sw pulses..Attachment 23297

    ...especially-fun, was 'deconstructing' stills, ie, a simple test-pat, (...recognize this? Attachment 23306 ...and watch it become a 'living' aerials super-star...

    Nothing 'new', really - I file it under "Lessons Learned from Laserium / the 6B" playing all these 'variables' off-each other can produce some simple to-achieve, yet jaw-dropping fx... chop, in-particular, is your very, very cool friend...

    But again, personally, I envision this a mostly-strictly aerials / fx projector... but *really* bright, and - color!, vs just the ho-hum green... And Steve (photonbeam)'s suggestion of using the wave-plate attenuator is a great-idea for controlling red vs green % - even trying to 'color-balance' a bit... hah, now that's funny...

    cheers..
    j
    Well, the pulse trains wouldn't have to be perfect, if it were only to be an EFX/aerial rig.

    As long as the effects look cool...

    One of the options would be to leave the 445nm array running CW, and to have all three lasers galvo-blanked. I don't think GM20s would be fast enough for that, I'm probably wrong on this one but I've never seen them go in person.

    If it is to be for an aerials-only rig, I daresay you could probably get away with dichro flags. I guess, seeing as you aren't doing any fancy graphics or whatnot, they'd be fine. But individual galvo blanking would still be the most effective (if not cost-effective) solution.

    @dmills You'd probably blow the Pockels/Kerr cell apart if you aren't careful. The Q-Switch inside the Laserscope is fragile as-is, and I don't think an extracavity unit would fair any better.

    The other option would be to run the Laserscope CW-oh, wait a second, I forgot about Triplet State Quenching, mah bad.

    Anyway- if you were going for graphics, then you wouldn't be using a Laserscope to start off with

    Hence, aerial EFX rig would work just fine, scanning up into the air or at 45 degrees to perpendicular.

    P.S. dsli_jonDid I say that the cone mirror is probably pure genius? It's something I have to try now, once my galvos get here.

    Extending on that idea, There's always the option of a set of galvos scanning into a spirograph. I don't think that's been done before, but that could result in some very, very interesting effects.

  2. #112
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    Well GM20 retro reflector blanking was standard practise back in the day, and works fine for this sort of beam show application.

    The extracavity beam is a small fraction of the intracavity power so providing suitable coatings an EO cell is entirely possible (if hideously complicated).
    EVERYTHING intracavity in a Q switched laser tends to be run on the ragged edge of optical damage, just the way the things are, outside the cavity most things are a little bit less stressed.

    The issue is not the switching time of the blue diodes (which will be way better then any mechanical blanking scheme) it is that to match the 'scope visually while scanning you really want 10 or 15W average blue power in 20ns pulses at whatever the Q switch PRF is, and those diodes will not do that.

    Now the issue really is how much the scanner movement will elongate the blue compared to the dot produced by the Q switched red and green, and thus what the maximum duty cycle you can get away with on the blue source.

    I incline to the view that this thing would never really be a subtle sort of laser so just over do the blue a bit and think when designing the shows.

    We will only really know how it works when someone builds the thing.

    Regards, Dan.

  3. #113
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    hey m8 -

    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    There's always the option of a set of galvos scanning into a spirograph.
    Spirograph? you mean, like a variant on the spinning mirror (ie: the 'sky scan' above) or Got me on that one...

    cheers...
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  4. #114
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    Hey Sir D -

    Quote Originally Posted by DMills View Post
    Well GM20 retro reflector blanking was standard practise back in the day, and works fine for this sort of beam show application.
    I'm thinking you mean Galvo-blanking for retro-style mech-blanking / intensity, and GM-20s, for 'dichro-based' color-sep / mixing? (...or, yes, could also be used for slower, but simpler 'flag-style' blanking...) And, yes, GM-20s are quite-fast for color-control... not-nearly 'AOM-fast', of course, but imo, 'fast-enough' for a sys like this...

    Quote Originally Posted by DMills View Post
    The issue is not the switching time of the blue diodes (which will be way better then any mechanical blanking scheme)
    Not 'challenging', just-curious: why do you feel a 'chopper' would not work on the blue? They should be more than 'fast-enough', http://www.scitec.uk.com/optical_chopper/300cd since the LS 'OEM' spec for PRF was 25kHz, max... (newer models (Crystal Tech) of the driver op between 6 -12kHz, iirc...) and a chopper is quite-easily variable, to 'experiment-with'... Interested in yer thoughts, cause, hey - I know I learn something new every day...

    ..But as you say - build-it, first, then-see... I certainly would not be 'running out and buying a chopper', right off the bat.... but I'd try and leave space for one...

    Sorry I can't post the compact retro-designs, for 'oblivious-reasons' but, I'll be happy to chat in-PM...

    cheers..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    hey m8 -

    Spirograph? you mean, like a variant on the spinning mirror (ie: the 'sky scan' above) or Got me on that one...

    cheers...
    j
    This is a diagram:



    And what it does:


  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    This is a diagram:
    Ah, pthpthpth! Silly me!.... Yeah, uh, that's like 'laser-shows 101'... I was confusedded by the way you used the term - sounded like you were talking about a specific-
    product
    ... I guess that's just me being 'hard of brain'...

    The 'proper' term for those fx is 'lissajous'... and, yeah, 'been there, done that':

    http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...chmentid=11505

    ..the 'sky-scan' above, works much the same way as a 'lissajous' generator, but with the 'added-dimension' of graphics scanned onto the mirror (vs just a beam, as in the diagram, there...) and the 'interference' patterns, created by playing the scan-rate, point-count, bounce-mirror motor-speed, and q-sw rate, all off each-other...

    I'm sure, though, that, yes - like the 'diagram', if there were 2x spinning off-axis mirrors, bouncing scans, that would develop some extra-trippy fx... You now-understand the 'foundations' of what made the earliest laser-show systems (ie: Dr. Cross' legacy-system, there; Laserium's 6B controller, etc...) so 'cool' and - even to this day - able to produce mesmerizing fx like no other system... 'DigiSynth' shows some 'promise'.. very cool cookies, there... But even that, imho, can't touch a 6B's 'depth' of fx / variability / control...

    ...Oh, for about 6-7 clones to work on this all...

    cya
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    Ah, pthpthpth! Silly me!.... Yeah, uh, that's like 'laser-shows 101'... I was confusedded by the way you used the term - sounded like you were talking about a specific-
    product
    ... I guess that's just me being 'hard of brain'...

    The 'proper' term for those fx is 'lissajous'... and, yeah, 'been there, done that':

    http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...chmentid=11505

    ..the 'sky-scan' above, works much the same way as a 'lissajous' generator, but with the 'added-dimension' of graphics scanned onto the mirror (vs just a beam, as in the diagram, there...) and the 'interference' patterns, created by playing the scan-rate, point-count, bounce-mirror motor-speed, and q-sw rate, all off each-other...

    I'm sure, though, that, yes - like the 'diagram', if there were 2x spinning off-axis mirrors, bouncing scans, that would develop some extra-trippy fx... You now-understand the 'foundations' of what made the earliest laser-show systems (ie: Dr. Cross' legacy-system, there; Laserium's 6B controller, etc...) so 'cool' and - even to this day - able to produce mesmerizing fx like no other system... 'DigiSynth' shows some 'promise'.. very cool cookies, there... But even that, imho, can't touch a 6B's 'depth' of fx / variability / control...

    ...Oh, for about 6-7 clones to work on this all...

    cya
    j
    Yeah, it's called a spirograph because it looks like, well, one of those kids' toys. Remember back when you were younger, and had these?



    Ahh, fond memories.

    Depending on when my wad of money feels like turning up on my doorstep, I'll be getting a set of galvos soon. One of the first things I'll try is with the oversized mirror, and the galvos. If I can get my grubby little hands on some more FSRs, I'll try with two mirrors, and report on results.

    It's trippy enough with one mirror, imagine it with two Now, imagine that beaming into a foggy night, being fed with a KTP532.

    As for the Laserium projectors, and Dr Cross's piece of art, there'll always be something 'special' to them, and the way they're controlled. Everything's done manually, and you 'play' the laser as you would an instrument. It's an art-form really, and a skill that slowly disappears as time goes on, and as software begins to take over.

    But in the end, nothing can replace the truly expansive beamtable of a Laserium projector. They sure know their effects.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    But in the end, nothing can replace the truly expansive beamtable of a Laserium projector. They sure know their effects.
    I concur.





    ...now go take a cold shower...
    ciao
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    I concur.





    ...now go take a cold shower...
    ciao
    j
    Cold shower? Oh, damn, I've lost count.

    Can't wait to see the water bill.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    This is a diagram:



    And what it does:

    hehe...oh yes...cave man laser shows...

    http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...highlight=1978
    Pat B

    laserman532 on ebay

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt & selling it in a garage sale.

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