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Thread: Russian laser show 'blinds' revellers

  1. #81
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    Jul 2008
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    Anything new on this? I am mainly curious as to how high a power laser was used. Most seem to agree that it was a pulsed laser.

  2. #82
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    sorry to hear that.
    any news?
    as here in China, also many laser scanner in Club, the light sometimes directly face to people, look like they don't consider any of the safety problems, so I am a little worry, can all of you give a conlusion for safety scanner, if can't avoid scanner to people's face.
    (1). what power with scanner is safety? (Continue and Pluse)
    (2). at least what speed of scanner is needed?
    (3). how long distance people should left the projector with laser projector's power density.
    (4). how about we tell people some safety knowledge (any direction did by ILDA?)and rent one goggles to him when showing.(of course not 100% reflect the lasers, only 90% reflect)
    maybe it is time we need careful consider this, that will be better for laser show long time improvement, if people don't know it correct and they only hear the dangerous about the lasers, people will fear and reject laser show.
    Best regards!
    Bridge
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  3. #83
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    One very easy rule: If the static beam of the laser is something you would not want to project directly on your skin indefinitely, then you sure wouldn't want it on your retina for even a femtosecond. I'm sure there are those who would dissagree, but screw you! They are (It is) my retina!

    James.
    Last edited by James Lehman; 07-27-2008 at 22:13.

  4. #84
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    Jul 2008
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    Bridge there is no single rule as to what is safe as there are so many variables. So you can't just go out and buy a particular projector of a particular power that's safe for scanning, unless of course we're talking Class I lasers here!

    The only way to "safely" audience scan is to calculate the MPE (Maximum Permitted Exposure) for each pattern used in a show from a particular projector and then the MPE for the overall show as effects are cumulative (hence the reason why breaks long without scanning are essential in something like a club where it might go on for extended periods), and ensure both the inidiviual pattern MPE's and overall MPE's fall within the levels set out in the International guidelines drawn up for safe scanning.

    For advice on how to calculate MPE, you can look here and also to various publications, but it is very complex:

    http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09a.htm

    The only safe way without calculations is not to do it. With correct calculations its very safe but never can be regarded as absolutely 100% safe.

    As said above: NEVER use a pulsed laser to scan an audience.

  5. #85
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    A DMX laser with pre defined frames should easy to be rated at a safe level to audiance for a laserprojector. This is something a manufacturer should do.

    Rating of those lasers would be a huge step foreward in lasersafety.

    With ILDA lasers it's not possible, with ILDA lasers the operater is responsible.

    It is possible to make a lasersafety board wich will switch off the laser when the operater makes a too small image which exceeds the EMP level at a certain distance.

  6. #86
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    Jul 2008
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    I don't know about easy, but its something I've been saying for a while, that manufacturers should calculate the MPE for pre-set patterns for each laser they sell and supply a table of data for various distances per pattern along with the laser as this would then allow amateurs or mobile discos / small clubs who don't have the knowledge or can't go to the expense of MPE calcs, to put together a show by simply using the data table for a given distance and aggregating the MPE for the patterns / repetitions to give MPE for the show. Even under IDLA control, provided the in built patterns were used, I'd imagine the data would hold true. It would only be external custom patterns that would require seperate calculation I imagine.

    Fact is at some point, the industry is going to have to address the safety issues that arise from home/ mobile disco and small club use and find a safe way of enabling these users to simply calc MPE and make a display safe.

    Oherwise, Audience Scanning is going to happen anyway, accidents will happen and the whole industry will then suffer.

  7. #87
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    All I can say is this: Hold your lasers close my friends. I bet the days of buying lasers on EBAY are numbered.

  8. #88
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankenPC View Post
    All I can say is this: Hold your lasers close my friends. I bet the days of buying lasers on EBAY are numbered.
    I don't think so. You'll note that after the initial story died down there hasn't been very much about it in the media. Plus I think it's really helped that Pangolin, ILDA, and LSDI have all jumped in to condemn the incident while also explaining that it was *not* indicative of a normal laser show (because of the pulsed laser that was used).

    I'll wager that the same people that weighed in on the discussion here on PL have also contacted news media outlets to explain the incident. (Much like they did a few years ago when the news media freaked out over green laser pointers being pointed at airliners.) Back then many people on PL feared new laser legislation as a result of those few incidents too. But several years later E-bay laser sales are still going strong. I believe this incident will be no different. In time the public will forget all about it.

    Still, I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to Bill and Patrick and Greg for going to bat for the industry. And just because this one incident was explained as the exception (and not the rule), we all need to be continually vigilant with regard to safety, lest a similar accident happen over here.

    Adam

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    we all need to be continually vigilant with regard to safety, lest a similar accident happen over here.
    This is why I made my comments above about the industry taking the initiative and making safety easier to achieve for those without access to huge resources or technical knowledge. Otherwise its only a matter of time in my opinion.

    Take a look at this show in the UK - non audience scanning - (I'm not saying its necessarily unsafe) but I would have concerns personally if the lasers were powerful:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFGsDPzVLCo

    The lasers seemed to have been positioned so they don't scan the audience and they appear quite powerful (although its always hard to tell from video). But at times the bands heads look either in or very close to the beams. There certainly isn't a 3m vertical exclusion zone from where the band is situated and personally I think the that whereas the audience is safe, the band situation looks more precarious. A sudden retreat backwards on the stage along with a turn around could cause someone to get a beam in the face from extremely close range. There also appears to be a piece of instrumentation in front of one of the lasers getting caught in the left hand beam at times and causing a "hot spot".

    Just my amateur opinion, but this set up would worry me and this is why its essential the safety message gets across and the means of ensuring safety, ie MPE, is made easy for amateurs / small professional venues to calculate.

  10. #90
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    Whoever manages to blind Bloc Party will get a Mercury Award for services to music.

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