Kryo Man - WTF?

[norty303]

Hats off to you sir, for a) having the will to take the action you have and b) for coming here, obviously aware of the way people have been talking about your act.

[Jem]

Hats off to you sir, for a) having the will to take the action you have and b) for coming here, obviously aware of the way people have been talking about your act.

Yes, it was a bold move indeed, and you have my greatest admiration and respect. Please stick around and ask questions, there are many highly qualified and talented people here. I'm sure there'll be folks chime in shortly. In the meantime please feel free to ask any questions and we'll do our very best to be helpful.

Regards

Jem

[KRYOMAN]

Thanks Jem,

Off the top of my tea i would like to ask if anyone in the forum can suggest some basic safety guidelines for using laser pointers in a performance situation -

Distance from crowd, Movement, Exposure, Filters, Power.

Look forward to the reply.

[Laserman532]

kryoman... i applaud your post....however....now that you know the concerns expressed by laser lighting professionals here on this forum...( which i assume you already knew)

As the "director of the brand and accepting all responsibility of the actions of your employees"...What do you plan to do to secure that your "brand" and its "employees" are in compliance 100% to all federal and state requirements necessary to introduce lasers into commerce?

I will give you a bit of advice for now...STOP all laser effects associated with the kryoman brand until you can become compliant with all federal and state regulations regarding the use of lasers in the public arena...to start with.

[mixedgas]

One, you'll need to expand the beams. This is better anyways because of better utilization of scattering materials in the air.
Easy to do, needs one or two lenses added after the handheld.

As for our attitude,
Guys, lets help the gentleman out, perhaps we can even improve the act, and add galvanometer scanning to make it safe in the places where audience scanning is legal. He's already got power on board, so fiber feed, expanded beam, RGB, and one axis scanning? Perhaps now is not the best time to be "Safety Nazis". (I know, Godwin's law) Human mounted laser effects have been done before, legally in the states. So maybe XY scan head on robot head etc?

Problem is he is way closer to the audience then we would like, and this means actual measurements, not calculated, effects.
He's also in venues with low ceilings.

It would be tough to meet the Maximum Permissible Exposure with a handheld.

Since aud scanning math knowledge is held somewhat closely to our hearts, I'm sure there's a NDA/possible business deal/mutally beneficial arrangement in there somewhere for someone... May not even be audience scanning, maybe another technique, or another light source, such as a small Xenon or Halide... I've got lamp pumped fiber bundles in the lab that are incoherent and dont need much juice, yet still look "tight" when collimated.

Lets be innovative. Remember he's going to need a good basic knowledge framework in order to proceed.

Steve

[chad]

All of that depends on weather they want to spend the money to make the effects or not. It CAN be done, there are a handful of us on the forums that could make really cool improvements to the visuals of the show but if he doesn't want to spend the money to do it correct then....

chad

[dnar]

Still curious how this got so far without understanding the dangers. How many shows performed, how many people exposed to possible risks? And the relevant authorities have not tapped you on the shoulder or contacted you?

I think this just goes to show what you can actually get away with sans licenses and permits... I guess it's like a lot of things these days, your ok until someone looses an eye, then the lawyers take away your Ferrari, your pork belly shares, your house in Malibu and sleep with you girlfriend.

[KRYOMAN]

Yes, any design improvements or upgrade ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Im open.

[White-Light]

What about recommending him some simple 5mw laser gloves such as the Trinary ones mentioned here?

http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...g-Laser-Gloves

Provided it's a genuine 5mw ie not more, less than 5mw is generally considered safe provided you don't stare down the beam for some time.

I would have thought anything over 5mw would have been a nightmare to calculate for safety purposes as the crowd is often up close and unpredictable.

[buffo]

I would have thought anything over 5mw would have been a nightmare to calculate for safety purposes as the crowd is often up close and unpredictable.

More to the point, it would require an audience-scanning laser light show variance from the CDRH, of which there have been less than a dozen ever issued here in the US.

KRYOMAN:

Crowd-scanning is a big deal. You are putting the audience at risk. Sure, the MPE level *appears* to be overly conservative, but remember the sue-happy legal culture we have here in the US.

If you are exposing the crowd to laser light levels above 2.5 mw/sq cm without an approved audience-scanning variance, you are already guilty of gross negligence. That means that any audience member can claim an eye injury from one of your shows and you won't have a leg to stand on in court. (You will also be in violation of federal law, remember.)

The effect you are trying to accomplish *can* be done legally, but it is difficult. However, if you continue to do it illegally, you are putting your patrons at risk. This, in turn, places your entire business at risk. But it also hurts the entire industry as a whole. That's why so many people are upset here. They see illegal laser operators like you as a serious threat to their livelihood. (And rightfully so.)

I suggest you chat at length with Dan Goldsmith from X-laser. He can help you devise a way to do your show legally, with lasers. But until you are 100% legal, I really wish you would keep the lasers out of your act. Not just for your benefit, but for the benefit of your patrons, as well as the benefit of the laser entertainment industry as a whole.

Adam