USB over twisted pair (CAT5)

[mccarrot]

Correct, there are modules like this wich do work with fb3

[sbk]

The only flawless working solution I found is to use a special bridge software (not free) between two computers which converts USB to IP : USB Redirector. All others hardware solutions are using dirty drivers and just BSOD or freeze...

[norty303]

Yes, but Bill has revealed there are other cheaper solutions than the Startech, that do work with the FB3. He just said to drop him an email about it, in the thread for some time back...

[sbk]

Correct, I forgot about that... I should drop it an email then

[JStewart]

Adam,

Not sure if, when you refer to ILDA, you mean about there being a recognised way to use CAT5 with the analogue signals of a standard DB25 way ILDA connector, or a new digital approach? (edit: seeing the replies that have appeared in the time I wrote this post, it seems like the former. Anyway, still an interesting topic)

If it’s the latter, there is an initiative within ILDA to develop a digital replacement to the trusty DB25 port we are all used to. The project, (IDN), is being headed up by Dirk Apiz at Dexlogic in Germany.

There is a digital protocol for IDN that has been defined which I believe is open for those interested in working with / contributing to it.

At the moment two pieces of IDN hardware exist; both are in the form of 25 way shells, that can convert an ILDA analogue stream from a 25 way to a digital stream, (via a CAT5 output). Then using its counterpart, the digital signal is converted back to analogue at the projector to drive a standard “ILDA compatible” laser projector.

Information on these devices (StageMate and StageFeed) can be found on the Dexlogic website. http://www.dexlogic.com/products/IDN-en.html

These interfaces allow existing systems with analogue outputs and inputs at each end to be bridged via a digital means.

ILDA Out -> ADC-CAT5 -------> CAT5-DAC -> ILDA In

I guess the eventual plan is to have controllers that just output via the computer’s network connection, and have a compatible network-to-analogue converter (i.e. a DAC) in the laser projector.

Its use was demonstrated at last year’s ILDA conference. It’s not a formal ILDA Standard as yet, but my understanding is that is the goal of the IDN project.

James

[norty303]

Hi James

We're talking about extending the digital signal 'pre-DAC', in this instance the USB connection.
This way, multiple DACs can be added to the receiver end, up to the limit of the digital data stream.

That project looks interesting, but if I've understood it correctly, a little limited if it only extends a single ILDA streams worth of data (IMO). Of course, if its cheap then it may be a runner, but I think that going the route akin to DMX is probably more preferable (lots of signals down a single data stream).

Something like ArtNET (ILDAnET??) that the computer could produce natively and stream directly out of the Ethernet port to a special receiver unit to then interface to the DACs would be great, but we're not far off that now with the USB extenders (albeit with a transmitter unit required as well).

[JStewart]

Hi Adam,

I realised after I made the post that you were more likely looking for something pre-DAC. Still an interesting topic though.

IDN I believe stands for “ILDA Digital Network”. In it’s going forward implementation it can of course address multiple laser projectors fitted with an IDN compatible DAC. So yes, just one Ethernet connection on a computer/laptop will drive as many different lasers as the software allows and what the datalink can handle in terms of bandwidth. Each laser just has an IDN->DAC, either plugged into the existing 25W ILDA input port, or eventually, if the standard gains any traction, built into the projector itself.

The current ADC->IDN converter is only one channel, and intended for legacy controllers.

James

[loopee]

Not only that, at roughly US$820 ex tax for the "Bulk version" the Icon/Startec boxes still work out better value (understanding this is for the professional installations)

Especially when you can control four USB devices

Understanding that there are situations that warrant the above IDN devices, it seems a little silly to take a digital interface and convert it to analogue (DAC) then convert that analogue back to digital form (StageFeed ISP) to then again convert back to analogue (StageMate ISP) to connect to the projector

I can't see how there wouldn't be losses in the conversion

And this doesn't include anything on the network side given that most that would use this would probably use a cheap arse switch to connect them together that won't include support for QoS/prioritization/multicast/RTP/etc

[norty303]

Especially when you can control four USB devices

If you're referring to the Startech 4 port devices, then they are exactly that, 4 USB ports. Each one can have a USB hub on it if required. I think someone has done tests with up to 8 FB3 on a Startech USB2004EXT successfully, and other may have gone further (but I would imagine you're dipping under 50mbps per DAC then). I wonder what USB3 will bring to the party?


Thanks for clarifying James, certainly an ethernet port streaming to multiple heads is the way to go.

[ThomasF]

Seriesly, if I understand it right, it is plan to convert analog to digital and the way back. Sounds like a VGA signal to a digital device. High transfer rate without compression. The best way would be to transfer the ilda stream through a standard Ethernet protocol. I know the startech solution, and it works fine. But a huge issue is that it can't be used with standard Ethernet commoners. No wifi possible. I also work with netlase and this can be used with a standard Ethernet output as well as with a router over wifi!
Why we should use a special component to do thinks similarly what standard components are doing well over the past years.

Thomas