Etiquette AND Protocol When Dealing with Senior Engineers, Artists and Programmers.

[mixedgas]

carmongary wrote:

If there is some expectation of a junior/senior ladder here then I'll just move on. I had enough of that mess in the military. I expect to be able to express my opinion or question anyone regardless of age or experience and I respect anyone to do the same of me as long as done politely and without arrogance.[/QUOTE]
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Then what do you expect me to say to that young kid in Germany a while back who said 400 mW audience scanning at 2 meters to eyeball with invited nonlaserist guests in his apartment was perfectly safe, and then made comments that 87 mW in a static beam was not a hazard. He posted pictures of point blank scanning from a high power yag. That needed to be stepped on. Or should I have posted:

"hi, I'm your fuzzy little friend and I think you should turn the diode current down a little? Like He'd listen to that."

I'm not saying that I'm a corporal and your a colonel and buffo is grand admiral. I'm saying some folks around here are starting a culture of distrusting anybody experienced or older, including you as you are older to them. Not Physically older, but mentally older. I'm trying to stop "I ran billybob Georges Windows code on my CP and M box and it crashed, so all George's stuff sucks and billybob George is a a looser wanker twidgett."

And yes I have been called a twidgett when younger by someone qualed to do so, FORMER CO of USS WHALE. He was my mentor and physics instructor, and probably prevented me from doing a Columbine in 1988. I got no respect, and he taught me about respect. You still could respectfully disagree with the Lt. Commander, but you'd better have a good polite argument when you do so.He got me from class looser to chairman of student council. Not bad for a retired EE/MS in nuke physics, he taught for a dollar year. His way of giving back. Funny how he wasn't up on solid state, and would listen to me and let me teach part of the electronics classes. And it wasnt Sir or Curr, unless I was screwing up.
Lots of folks dont get that in school these days, they are not taught how to argue and know that sometimes you have to loose. My dad was a ex Marine, a Paris Island DI, so you can see how I had a screwed up childhood. Its a matter of balence, all I'm asking for is some balence.

Steve

For those that dont know, CP/M is a past operating system, but still used in industry.

[keeperx]

Sorry.. it was totally sarcasm. Thats my special way of saying how much i agree with the thread as well, even as a newcomer. I have great respect those that can teach me anything, the more you respect someone, the more they teach you..

~Alec - Lord of Irony

[buffo]

one thing that bugs me is this whole junior/senior concept. <snip>
If there is some expectation of a junior/senior ladder here then I'll just move on. I had enough of that mess in the military.

Respecting your seniors isn't just for the military, that's life. Even if you have a new idea (or at least *think* you do), you still need to be respectful when you present it. If you can't follow that basic social convention, then maybe you should move on, because it's expected behavior *everywhere*, not just here.

I expect to be able to express my opinion or question anyone regardless of age or experience and I respect anyone to do the same of me as long as done politely and without arrogance.

The key there is "without arrogance". I'll admit that some arrogance is always going to creep in, but you must be vigilent to prevent it from getting out of hand. To that I would also add that if someone has answered a question multiple times, then it's only natural that as the question keeps coming up, the arrogance factor in the reply will creep up.

However, your assertion that you demand the right to question anyone *regardless* of age or experience is, in itself, very arrogant. Don't you see that?

Conversely, someone who has been in the forum a long time should not assume that they know more than a newcomer, right?

I'll grant you that the length of time a person spends in the forum doesn't carry as much weight as length of time they've worked in an industry. For example, your time in the forum doesn't speak very much for your programming ability, but your work history in the field does.

Still, it's common courtesy to extend some deference to the people that have been there and done that already. If you later discover that, indeed, you do know more about the subject than they do, then the rest of the people here will figure it out in due course without you having to post your bonifides.

Also, I would add that just because you have experience in a related field doesn't mean you're an expert in the field of lasers, laser projectors, or laser software.

Adam

[Lasernerd]

Well I agree that I (and others) need to tone it down a bit. But one thing that bugs me is this whole junior/senior concept. I've been active in the laser stuff for only a couple of years or so but I've been active in software and electronics for over 25 years. So, when I make a suggestion or comment that is software related I take offense when I am told I don't know what I am talking about just because I haven't been messing with lasers for as long. And conversely, as an example, we outsource some of our programming to some 20-somethings in Romania and it is amazing how much stuff we learn from them since they have different perspectives and often dabble in the new technology more than us old timers.

If there is some expectation of a junior/senior ladder here then I'll just move on. I had enough of that mess in the military. I expect to be able to express my opinion or question anyone regardless of age or experience and I respect anyone to do the same of me as long as done politely and without arrogance.

Oh yes there are some senior members here!
And I respect that fully~
Words from these folks need to be heeded.
I for one have listened and applied there input for many years 15+

[mixedgas]

Keeperx wrote something, and so I saY:

I can recognize valid satire when I see it youngiin

God, I hate it when my mom calls me youngiin :-)

Steve

[Zoof]

Fantastic post Steve and your timing is right.
Keywords: respect and balance.
Come to this place to learn and to guide not to flame or boost your egos!
Cheers!

[soforene]

Well said Mixedgas !!

Although the title should read "Etiquette and Protocol When Dealing with other Forum Members" on account of I am neither an engineer, Artist or Programmer but still don't like rudeness and arrogance.

It's down to common courtesy (not just on the forum but in life in general).

[wes]

it is to your own benefit to be polite here.
when i did my first diy project, i received help to the extent of having a senior member have me call him at his home and he talked me through what i needed to know.

these guys are willing to share a wealth of info with anyone who asks.
the more of them that withdraw,the more priceless and FREE information will not be available.


i haven't even been around, so i don't know what bad manners have taken hold here.
when i found this place, i was amazed how friendly and sharing it was.
do me a favor and don't run it into the ground like so much else in this world.

thanks pl!

[Stuka]

VERY timely, Steve!

Thank you for interjecting your experience & wisdom into what recently has turned into rapidly degrading dialogue on several threads.

Very well put - thank you!!

Fantastic post Steve and your timing is right.
Keywords: respect and balance.
Come to this place to learn and to guide not to flame or boost your egos!
Cheers!

And a GREAT summary, Zoof !!

[James Lehman]

For me, Etiquette AND Protocol is pretty simple stuff.

I refuse to put people into a hierarchy of importance.

I refuse to worship "the top".

Everyone is of equal importance and deserving of equal respect.

If you think I like to be worshiped, I DO!

And if you worship me, I'll worship you right back.

If you come at me, thinking you are going to have a conversation with an asshole. YOU ARE!

James.