ILDA Accreditation

[keeperx]

ilda is suppose to be an organization.. so if thats the case, why do you have to pay to be a member and get a vote.. why does your LEVEL decide how many votes you get..

thats called a friken stock holders meeting.

Pangolin and ILDA are in bed together.. ILDA is accepting bribes in the form of PAID FOR votes.. i do not want a bunch of people that pay money to ILDA to be in charge of credidation.

If that is the case, the certification is worthless..

If i have a variance, then im in compliance with US laws.. this credit is just ilda saying they know about the shows im doing..

its EXACTLY like GAMER POINTS on xbox live.. and therfore WORTHLESS..

Now if ilda wants to help EDUCATE and promote SAFETY then they should give me a card that says I took the safety test (like getting your CPR card)

otherwise its just a number that shows how many laser shows I have done..

[gottaluvlasers]

carmangary-

"I like how if you do shows for cancer people you can get accredited faster. Makes perfect sense to me."

-I am sincerely hoping that you were NOT being sarcastic and honestly meant your statement. Mainly for 2 reasons.
1. my mother has breast cancer.
2. my brother is dying from 3 brain tumors.

so, doing laser shows for ANY sort of valid, recognized health awareness fundraiser like "american cancer society" SHOULD get a company some pretty damn good "points."

if you WERE being sarcastic, i would urge you to not criticize something that may not mean that much to you or may not make sense to you, but MAY mean a SHIT LOAD to someone else.

not to mention, on top of all that, i specifically said,

"i am OVERLY simplifying this and NOT using real numbers or scores..."

James-

I love a good "conspiracy theory." i applaud your questioning and negative outlook on this (like i said a zillion times, i STILL have many questions that need answering also!) BUT- a lot of your concerns are NOT valid because they simply dont exist. if i am not explaining it correctly or in a clear enough manner than my apologies and perhaps you should speak with Pat to explain it better. i honestly *think* you may be reading WAAAAAY too deep into this proposal and/or what i have said.

how can ILDA accredit someone that IS NOT part of their group? if you mis interpreted what i said because i used your name, my apologies. i was just doing that for effect. i was trying to make a point that it doesnt matter WHO you are. (of COURSE you have to be an ILDA member!!) you can be an ILDA member or an ILDA multi-million dollar corporate member. we BOTH have the exact same opportunity to become "accreditted."

you asked,

"do we (the non members) have a say about anything?"

Of course you do!!! to a certain extent. Pat Murphy and tim (i forgot his last name, sorry ) are members on Photon Lexicon! a HOBBYIST level Laser forum. you "Hobbyists" LARGELY out number the "Professional" Laserists here. and by "Professional", i mean- LEGAL. i DO NOT use the term "professional" to refer to or insinuate a persons skill level or technical know how! anyway- Pat Murphy came to a HOBBYISTS laser forum to explain this proposal and to even invite criticism and/or suggestions.

so, to answer your question, YES- you have a say.

-Marc

[carmangary]

Some money has to be paid in order to keep it going. It isn't govt funded as far as I know.

I don't think Pangolin is in bed with ILDA. I think that they just stay involved. It's always the ones that stay involved that get their way. If everyone of us on PL joined ILDA I am sure we could make a difference. But, who really cares enough? I don't.

[carmangary]

carmangary-

"I like how if you do shows for cancer people you can get accredited faster. Makes perfect sense to me."

-I am sincerely hoping that you were NOT being sarcastic and honestly meant your statement. Mainly for 2 reasons.
1. my mother has breast cancer.
2. my brother is dying from 3 brain tumors.

so, doing laser shows for ANY sort of valid, recognized health awareness fundraiser like "american cancer society" SHOULD get a company some pretty damn good "points."

if you WERE being sarcastic, i would urge you to not criticize something that may not mean that much to you or may not make sense to you, but MAY mean a SHIT LOAD to someone else.

Yes, I was being sarcastic. I am sorry your brother and mother have cancer. I really am. But, putting on laser shows for their cause should not give someone more points towards being a professional. I used to operate a nuclear reactor in the navy. I had to get signatures based on knowledge in order to qualify. Do you think I should have gotten extra signatures for doing a feed control watch while licking stamps for breast cancer? I don't think that would have made me a better reactor operator, do you? Professionalism is about doing your job correctly. Doing a job for cancer does not make you better at it. Hitting the books and practicing makes you better.

[gottaluvlasers]

yup a double post-

HOLY CHRISTMAS!!

WOW, we are a bunch of drama queens here arent we???

carmangary-

"ILDA is just a big club. Kind of like the American Kennel Club except for laser shows. Unless you have a pure bred laser show and intend to show it at one of the top AKC laser shows there isn't much need to worry about it. They aren't going to make it illegal to walk your mutt laser projector in the park. You and your friends can still have your own shows. You can still pick up chicks with your new baby laser scanner if it is cute enough. So no worries. Let the pros worry with the mess they are making for themselves and have fun with what you are doing."

you are 100% correct!


Keeperx-

"ilda is suppose to be an organization.. so if thats the case, why do you have to pay to be a member and get a vote.. why does your LEVEL decide how many votes you get.."

IBM is an organization. do YOU get to vote there? National Hockey League is an organization. do YOU get a vote there? National Society of Pretty pink flowers is an organization. do YOU get a vote in that? NOOO. you become part of an organization THEN you can become part of the voting process.

Level in ILDA (unless something has changed that i am unaware of) DOES NOT constitute how many votes you get. i have just as much voting weight as the president of LSDI.

"Pangolin and ILDA are in bed together.. ILDA is accepting bribes in the form of PAID FOR votes.."

you watch WAAAAY too much TV and CNN news. this isnt Bernard maydorf. this isnt Lehman brothers stock holder meetings. this is a Laser association (with about 100 members) and a software company. are you serious?

"If i have a variance, then im in compliance with US laws.. this credit is just ilda saying they know about the shows im doing.."

if you have a variance, you are correct- you are in compliance with U.S. regulations. that doesnt mean you are COMPETENT with performing laser shows. there are companies out there that have variances that couldnt put a good laser show on if they had 10, 20 Watt full color laser systems!

i have many variances. i know A LOT about safety! i perform my shows to the best of my ability and think i do pretty well. HOWEVER- that doesnt mean that i could perform a SAFE and AWE inspiring show in a tough venue under relatively harsh conditions in an unfamiliar territory. trying to obtain some of the "accreditation" goals COULD POSSIBLY help ME become a better company for my clients.

"Now if ilda wants to help EDUCATE and promote SAFETY then they should give me a card that says I took the safety test (like getting your CPR card)"

your CPR card says you studied CPR and passed a test and are able to perform CPR. CORRECT??? well, same as this. it is a set of standards and goals to shoot for to say, im not just some joe schmoe with a laser. i have BASIC competency in PERFORMING a safe and enjoyable show.

if i had to choose WHO to give me CPR i would Choose the person who was LICNESEd (accredited) to do it. rather than the person that says, well i have given it a million times. true, you MAY have given it a million times. but with the license i know there is some "technical merit" behind that statement.

-Marc

[gottaluvlasers]

LOL

Why am i arguing this anyway? i had questions, i read what i needed to read and called who i needed to call.

if youre all THAT concerned, read the forms, read the proposals, and make some calls.

why the heck am i arguing this?

[keeperx]

im just arguing it for the sake of arguing it. Im really a well balanced and very nice guy in person.

[carmangary]

if you have a variance, you are correct- you are in compliance with U.S. regulations. that doesnt mean you are COMPETENT with performing laser shows. there are companies out there that have variances that couldnt put a good laser show on if they had 10, 20 Watt full color laser systems!

I agree with you there. And the same argument is why I found the ILDA thing silly. Doing a show for cancer doesn't make you any more competent. Doing 1 show in a field doesn't make you 7.5x as smart as doing a show in a club. Getting an award doesn't make you better than someone who never bothers to try for an award.

[gottaluvlasers]

keeperx- im sure your a nice guy. lol. i can debate something without feeling personally attacked! so, no worries.

the accreditation process is a PROCESS which incorporates different areas. like i said before, its INTENTIONS is to set forth a collection of standards and goals to make the laser community better as a WHOLE! it isnt just about safety. it isnt just about ethics. it isnt just about who has the biggest systems or biggest billable shows. it isnt just about whos software is better. it isnt just about how many shows you performed in a basement or in an auditorium for 25,000 people.

its about LASERISTS trying to set the bar a little higher. if i want to make all of my accreditation points on doing free american cancer society shows, well thats how i make my points. if "XYZ" laser company wants to get their points quicker and get their points by being more "elite" and by being the "big bad ass laser company," well then they will get their points from awards and complexity of their shows.

i cant compete with LSDI's 400 ILDA awards. i will probably NEVER be an award winnig laser company. i enjoy my smaller scale shows. HOWEVER- i bet LSDI cant compete with my nightclub gigs either. i bet they cant compete with my fundraising efforts. (which i DO ALOT of!!!). i will get my points MY WAY. they will get their points THEIR way.

my way isnt better. their way isnt better. we ARE ALL striving for the same end result. the only difference is how we get there!

there are points i am still not comfortable with. i am not ALL FOR ILDA...WOHOO....GO ILDA. BUT, i got A LOT of good answers to my concerns.

all of the conspiracy theories here being spoken and all of the "ILDA is having pangolins babies" (EXAGERATION) talking is just getting ridiculous. we have taken this effort SO FAR OUT OF CONTEXT that it is now LIGHT YEARS beyond what the origianl scope was meant to be.

i still dont understand why, if your concerns are so strong, why havent you spoken to pat? why havent you downloaded the froms and read through the mission of the proposal?

almost EVERYTHING that has been brought up in this ENTIRE pissing match back and forth (that was LEGITIMATE) was answered by my conversation with Pat in a matter of 7 minutes and by reading through the forms and proposals.


NOT TO MENTION-

like i said originally. i may not even be desribing everything perfectly. i am conveying my thoughts and my interpretations of MY conversation and MY reading. there could be errors and this is why i have said about 743 times now, READ THE INFO AND/OR CALL ILDA!!!
-Marc

[James Lehman]

James-

I love a good "conspiracy theory." i applaud your questioning and negative outlook on this (like i said a zillion times, i STILL have many questions that need answering also!) BUT- a lot of your concerns are NOT valid because they simply dont exist.

-Marc

Back in 2004, I was in phone contact with Matt P. while he was the chair of the ILDA Standards and Technical Specifications Committee. He told me flat out that he was definitely NOT interested in seeing any kind of demonstration of LaserBoy or its ability to handle 24-bit color information, because as long as he never saw it, he could pretend that it didn't exist. I'm not making that up. That's what he told me when I pressed him. He lives about 25 minutes away from me.

Since he couldn't deal with me anymore, he put me into email contact with Peter J. Peter J. told me that he didn't have time to explain simple data structure and file formats to me and he didn't have to because I'm not an ILDA member.

Since then I've been kicked around in private and public by several people on several different forums.

That's not a conspiracy. That's the truth.

I think it's WAY past time that I get a public apology from those people and a total retraction of everything negative they've ever said about me.

Fix the f&%king file format.

James.