FB3 firmware downgrader?

[White-Light]

Their firmware updater shouldn't have put bad firmware on it without a way to restore to the original...

Its not bad firmware.

I can't comment on your older FB3 but for the newer one certainly the problem lies with the versions of the programmes you are now running.

I have Showrider, TraceIt, LiveQ, Draw3D all running on my system quite happily. The problem you're having is that the older versions of these programmes won't run on the updated firmware so you need newer versions from Pangolin. The same applies to Live Pro.

BTW from memory, QuickShow doesn't run on the updated firmware either. You need QS 2.

Unfortunately, I can't link you to where I downloaded my from as its not a public server, so you need to contact Pangolin.

[heroic]

The new FB3 works fine. It's only the older one that's not working. And even the older one runs Showrider... it's very strange. It claims the hardware is not supported when I try to start LiveQ. QuickShow bails saying that it's not licensed to run on the Neo series hardware, which I wish I'd known before I tried upgrading it (it's not made clear anywhere on Pangolin's site).

All the apps and drivers are freshly downloaded from Pangolin's site.

[White-Light]

The LiveQ problem is a problem with the version of the programme you're running. Its a known issue.

You want the 25 11 2010 build as it cures the hardware not recognised problem. Contact Pangolin.

[mixedgas]

Is there a patch on the Neolaser site?

Steve

[gottaluvlasers]

J-

I am working on this right now. Cant promise i will have a perfect answer for you, but working on it...

-Marc

[Pangolin]

As an update, it's my understanding that Heroic is up and running now, with the exception of LiveQ for her NEO system which we are examining now. I am sure we will have an answer soon.

-------------------------------------------------------

For what it's worth, the NEO hardware really falls under the NEO support agreement. Anyone with NEO hardware should contact NEO themselves directly for answers. Our software support for NEO systems technically ended several years ago (although, as a courtesy, we continue to help NEO clients).

Also, QuickShow is not supposed to work on NEO hardware (because of contractual obligations with NEO), but users can purchase an additional license from Pangolin to run QS on the NEO hardware. The cost is $250.

Best regards,

William Benner

[heroic]

As an update, it's my understanding that Heroic is up and running now, with the exception of LiveQ for her NEO system which we are examining now. I am sure we will have an answer soon.

Hey Bill,

you might want to consider making it possible to downgrade, or if not, warning people that you can't go back *before* their device is reflashed. Finding out afterwards came as a rather nasty surprise.

It's also not made clear anywhere in the QS2 installation that (a) this requires a reflash that cannot be reversed or (b) that it doesn't work with the Neo hardware without an additional license.

As for the support burden, well, I do have *four* FB3s, only one of which is a Neo part; I'd hope that would qualify me for a little support here and there...

[Pangolin]

Hi Heroic,

Thanks for the message. As you may have heard from our recent emails, we have you 100% up and running now. There was a problem with the very latest LiveQ running with NEO hardware, but -- thanks to your feedback, we were able to find, and fix the problem. We have sent you a link to the updated software, and we will incorporated this with the "legacy software" of the official QS 2.0 release.

My comments are below.

you might want to consider making it possible to downgrade

We don't want to provide this capability for a few reasons -- the biggest one being that someone hacked LivePRO for the FB3 such that it would work with all FB3s, whether or not someone had purchased a license. The new firmware will not work with the old, hacked, LivePRO and there is no way to go back (thus no way to use the old, hacked LivePRO). I would LOVE to be more reasonable, but hackers were not reasonable to us, so we sometimes need to make changes which allows legitimate clients to move forward, but keeps illegitimate pirates at bay...

or if not, warning people that you can't go back *before* their device is reflashed. Finding out afterwards came as a rather nasty surprise.

Sure, I understand. My response is that QS version 2.0 was not official at the time you downloaded it. We have advertised it as a BETA for a long time and until lterally yesterday (due to other changes), the download link on our web site did indeed inform people that their legacy programs would stop working and that they would need to download the new versions.

Also, there has been some discussion here on PL about same. My point is that -- the people who became aware of QS 2.0 also were given the opportunity to become aware of the implications of using QS 2.0. We never highly publicised 2.0 -- even on our forums you won't find any information about it. You will only find information here (which we tell you the implications) or by stumbling across it on our web site (which also told you the implications).

So, while I "feel your pain", I also think that we did provide information about the implications of the update. Also, in any case, we provided support for people who were "caught in the cross fire" and contacted us directly by email.

It's also not made clear anywhere in the QS2 installation that (a) this requires a reflash that cannot be reversed or (b) that it doesn't work with the Neo hardware without an additional license.

Actually it was made clear -- or at least pretty clear. As discussed above -- the two ways people would have found out about QS 2.0 BETA are the same two ways where people would have learned about the implications of the update.

Regarding not working with NEO hardware, I don't believe version 1.0 worked with NEO hardware either, unless there was a bug with 1.0 which allowed it to work with some NEO hardware.

Also let me take one moment to give more information about the whole NEO hardware topic. We sold NEO special hardware at a special price, and also under special circumstances. As dictated in an agreement with them, we can and can not do certain things. One of the things we can not do is provide new and free software which supercedes the capability of the original software. Also, due to another circumstance having nothing to do with Pangolin, we really are not supposed to support that hardware any longer (i.e. with updated versions of their software).

We are doing the best we can, given the circumstances and agreements that are in place. However, if you have a problem with NEO hardware (and thus even software that may or may not run on it), you should be contacting NEO and not us. We have gone well above and beyond the call of duty as outlined by past agreements. We want to treat customers fairly, even though -- by way of the NEO agreement, they are only indirect customers. If you understood the nature of the agreement, I think you would be surprised to find that we are even supporting this hardware at all, and on any level.

As for the support burden, well, I do have *four* FB3s, only one of which is a Neo part; I'd hope that would qualify me for a little support here and there...

Hehe. Well, I personally don't recall using the words "support burden" did I? Also, I have to say, having written 12,000 word per day for the past years, and now being a featured author in an Amazon.com best selling book, I can't even remember using the word "burden" in recent history. Please correct me if I am wrong!

In any event, for "a little support", you contacted us by email just two days ago and received emails from Hayden, Ante, and myself on your particular topic. All of us provided immediate and valuable information. We asked for clarification on one point and when you provided it, we found and solved the problem and sent you two separate emails today to make sure you received the update.

As someone who uses software written by companies other than Pangolin, and the true "burden" of using that software, I have to say, I don't recall ever receiving better software from any company at any time, regardless of the amount of money that I had or had not spent with them.

If we can do better, I am all ears . But let's face it -- this whole email thread was started by you just a few days ago and you have what I believe is a complete solution today. In my book that's not bad!

Best regards,

William Benner

[flecom]

As for the support burden, well, I do have *four* FB3s, only one of which is a Neo part; I'd hope that would qualify me for a little support here and there...

see thats the thing, even though it is an FB3, it was purchased as OEM hardware via NEO... which means (by any typical OEM agreement) that it is 100% NEO's problem to provide any and all support (including software)...

for example, I have tons of Dell servers at work that use some very, very expensive Intel processors, but if I have a problem with one do you think Intel is going to help me? or even entertain the idea of helping me? hint: no

its just the way it works... same as buying an OEM copy of windows, it explicitly states that it comes with no support and is for use by manufacturers that as part of the installation agreement MUST support their end users as Microsoft will provide NO support of any kind...

ex

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/lice...s/default.aspx

I am not trying to be a pangolin apologizer here (I think anyone that knows me knows that is not the case hehe) but really they have gone above and beyond helping you on something that (even though it seems unfair/wrong) is really not their problem