confused about software/DAC requirements of laser projectors

[White-Light]

I don't think anyone will disagree on that.

I have no idea why most "high end" projectors don't have an SD slot, maybe it costs too much because for license from SanDisk or whomever or the companies simply haven't considered situations like I described/don't care.

I'd imagine because most serious hobbyists / professional users never ever use them, so as a manufacturer its just adding to the cost of the projector and making yourself more expensive compared to the competition in order to capture the 1% that do. eg. How many people at that level ever use sound to light? Again I presume that's why high end manufacturers don't bother with sound to light boards eg you won't find one in a Kvant, at least not one that I've seen. Mine certainly doesn't contain one and mine's pretty much the next to bottom end Spectrum.

There are also serious alternatives to SD automation which are much more powerful now provided the location is secure enough to leave a laptop in attendance (which most are due to Ethernet runs), ie VLJ as a substitute for sound to light and Playlists and / or Beyond Scripting as a substitute to pretty much anything an operator can do. I can't say much about scripting and in all honesty, I don't know very much about the scripting, but I have dug around a little in the command lines and lets just say there are ways of automating almost all functions.

[mixedgas]

Ihor, If you had a second US dealer who actually answered his phone and had stock, You'd sell a lot more. You also need a more modern demo program with the ability to assign say 48 animations to hotkeys. I could do a wicked manual beam show with 48 hot keys. Especially if I could load additional pages of 48 animations at a time during the night. There is a market for a small show controller with real time software.
I can help you with the software layout design, I have a much older program in mind that is no longer available as the basis for my statement.

Simple, F1 to F12 are the first animations
ALT-F1 to F12 are the second bank
FN F1 to F12 are the third bank
CTRL F1 to F12 are the forth bank
Space bar for tap sync
Esc blanks the laser
Home = slow X rotation (only one rotation needed at a time)
End = slow Y rotation
Insert = slow Z rotation
Delete = return to animation with no rotation or zoom
Page Up = Zoom up from a dot and then animate at full size.
Page Down = change rotation direction
Backspace = change color sequence
\ = write out each frame from a Dot.
TAB = stop animation and manually step through frames.
Caps Lock = Toggle animation brightness from 50% to 100%
~ key = Toggle animation speed from fast to slow.

Q = LOAD Animation Bank One
W = LOAD Animation Bank Two
E = LOAD Animation Bank Three
R = LOAD Animation Bank Four
S = set up global image size.

When you press any hotkey to load a new animation, all effects are canceled.
Animations stay up when selected until a new animation is selected.
It helps if there are 48 icons on the screen.
Repressing any F key restarts that animation from frame one in the animation.
I don't need 48 animated icons in front of me, I just need to be able to select one frame from the animation as a icon and store that.

With THAT set of keystrokes above, I could keep a rave or dance party going all night. But I am too old for Raves.

I don't need zones, I don't need layers, I don't need SMS, All I need if I am a beginning or serious DJ is the above set of actions.

Older folks might even recognize the program I'm talking about, although I did change some of the keys.

I'd love my Riya or Etherdream more If I had the above software for them. I could sell that program all day for 200$ if it was well done.

It need not even come with content, just the ability to load ILDA.

Just my two cents.

Steve

[The_Doctor]

Steve's just hit a good point... The argument so far seems to be about external control vs NOT external control, right? So is there a cheap way to get a bit of both? And there is. The PC keyboard. It's no thief-magnet these days. It's cheap, you can get them everywhere, carry lightweight spares. They've got contact debouncing, everything needed to send a control signal immediately to a PS2 or USB port.

Standardising what it will do is another matter, but Steve gave an example and there could be more. True proportional control gets expensive and demands more specialised hardware, but even there, there are keyboards with mousepads, trackballs... Look for something that's been sold widely for years. Set up local storage and sequencing to respond to its signals... And in an unattended laser, all you need to do to prevent tampering is unplug the thing. Unless other people are sneaking keyboards around it can work. You can add a password access anyway...

Edit: In case what I mean isn't clear: People seemed to be saying 'can we omit the DAC to use SD?' My point being, to omit the expensive computer.

[mixedgas]

Doctor, The key strokes selected are based on having an annoying program that used letters for animations and rotations and a not so annoying, enjoyable program that just used the outer keys around the letters. There is a method to my madness. Its easy to remember what you have in a F key bank, its like a musical keyboard to the mind. Its not so damn easy to remember the Dancing Pig is on "A" and the Dancing Baby is on "K". I cant touch type, so I like the F keys.

As you have suggested, a SD card player with 48 hot keys would be a great improvement over what is out there. DMX helps, but I have seen few users happy with or able to implement a DMX only card. The DJ is already going to have a laptop or Ipad with them for the music.

Steve

[The_Doctor]

Wot no Dancing Hitler? I am so disillusioned. (See post with big grey dialog image a page or so back if you're wondering what that's all about..)

About keyboards and minds, I agree, there are psychologists throughout history who studied grouped patterns and accessibility. For all Querty's ills, it sorted this out well enough especially with F-keys and the arrows and the other six, the numbers... and few people now don't know it. Might as well hitch a ride on it now. The kind of computer that ran those programs might sit neatly and cheaply on a board in a projector. Only real danger is mission creep. What's needed to fix the need for constant recurring debate is standardisation more than new ideas, so I'll shut up now. Good standards will come from those who know the history better than me.

[Galvonaut]

Dancing Hitler is <CTRL> 9!

If said projector is going into a club type environment, then SD based cues can be triggered via DMX, no?
This would be as simple as a cable to the nearest DMX controlled light.

Keith

[White-Light]

...because they can't as they're not there? xD

I think you meant to say most people don't "need" it, not "use" it. But then, how can you tell that and even tell a percentage when they haven't even had a chance to use it?

A lot of projectors manufactured many years ago were fitted with Pangolin's FB3 OEM version which had a built in XD card reader or other independent versions of the same. Practically every projector you saw on ebay had a card reader built in. However, clearly the market didn't support the need for this feature as most projector manufacturers abandoned using build in card readers in favour of ILDA inputs and Pangolin removed it from their new version of the FB3.

What most people don't seem to get here is you don't always need control, moreover if it's in cost of convenience.

it's like using an audio editor to listen to music. You don't need any control, you just want to listen to music.

That's why sound to light satisfies most home users on small budgets who don't want or can't afford a connected controller.

The withdrawal of readers from the market by most companies hints there are very few people who want to display customs logos standalone with no connected pc. Most professional companies would rather have the control that a pc gives them - features such as keystone and perspective correction and zone control and BAM's for safety. That's something you can't do in a standalone projector system.

There's no doubt that the very occasional user will have a use for an SD card system such as displaying a static logo behind the DJ where the projector is more or less straight on or has a very short throw and where its impossible to have a pc or too expensive to buy a full software package. However, I'd suggest the numbers are obviously very low otherwise a Card reader would be a feature on far more systems. But, if a card reader system is ideal for your requirements then by all means get one, I'm just trying to offer some explanations in reply to your question as to why they don't seem to be found on many systems these days.

[LaserCo]

This is reminding me a lot of BeamFX!
You had so much control, it was DOS even.

I have a much older program in mind that is no longer available as the basis for my statement.

Simple, F1 to F12 are the first animations
ALT-F1 to F12 are the second bank
FN F1 to F12 are the third bank
CTRL F1 to F12 are the forth bank
Space bar for tap sync
Esc blanks the laser
Home = slow X rotation (only one rotation needed at a time)
End = slow Y rotation
Insert = slow Z rotation
Delete = return to animation with no rotation or zoom
Page Up = Zoom up from a dot and then animate at full size.
Page Down = change rotation direction
Backspace = change color sequence
\ = write out each frame from a Dot.
TAB = stop animation and manually step through frames.
Caps Lock = Toggle animation brightness from 50% to 100%
~ key = Toggle animation speed from fast to slow.

Q = LOAD Animation Bank One
W = LOAD Animation Bank Two
E = LOAD Animation Bank Three
R = LOAD Animation Bank Four
S = set up global image size.

When you press any hotkey to load a new animation, all effects are canceled.
Animations stay up when selected until a new animation is selected.
It helps if there are 48 icons on the screen.
Repressing any F key restarts that animation from frame one in the animation.

Steve

[The_Doctor]

Most professional companies would rather have the control that a pc gives them - features such as keystone and perspective correction and zone control and BAM's for safety. That's something you can't do in a standalone projector system.

Casio did it. Most video projectors have built in keystone correction, aspect ratio, etc. No reason this can't be in a vector projector, I think Stanwax sells a board made by David Zurcher that does this. Like I said, get the signal standards set up so you don't need add-on boards. Then all you have to do is control them. Simple PC keyboard with setup sequences to invoke each correction, use arrow keys to adjust, exit by ESC. The control interface is the expensive bit, so use the cheapest standard hardware available worldwide. I defy ANYONE to beat the PC keyboard for that.

One small idea I had for selecting beam patterns live, is set each number key with a specific crossfade time. So omit the number to get instant change, or precede pattern selection with a digit on the numeric pad. If you've built patterns that mix well, and want to add one at a time, precede the next by +, or even - to remove one already playing in a mix. So +5F7 might get a slow morphing in of a new pattern to an existing mix.

What people settle on as easy and convenient is anyone's guess, but brutally simple ideas like those often yield the best power.

Keith, definitely, He was big on control. And negation.

[norty303]

Dream - I'm sure if you wanted one still, Pangolin can sell you an FB3-SE or FB3-XE with SD card support to go with QS.
I can't recall if LiveQuick is still required to upload to the card or if QS had that functionality integrated eventually.
Given that QS is free to download, your cheapest option overall might be just to find a second hand FB3-SE/XE.