Newbie - hardware / software control advice

[Insanity]

There are two main controller packages from Pangolin (The Industry Standard) at the moment...

The QM2000 system which comes as a PCI board and has three levels of software to choose from, each adding features to the version below it. Intro is the lowest cost version, followed by Basic and then Pro. This comes with Lasershow Designer 2000, Showtime 2000, a bunch of other programs, 100's of free shows and 1000's of frames. Pro comes with the Live Pro package as standard, but Live Pro can be added to Intro and Basic for extra cost. This system can also be bought as, or upgraded to QM2000.Net, which involves adding an adaptor board and enclosure (If required) to the QM2000 making it a self contained unit with Ethernet connection for use with laptops, as opposed to lugging an entire PC around...

The other solution is the Pangolin Flashback 3 (FB3). This is a tiny OEM board that can be built into your projector or as a standalone box. Again, you can purchase Live Pro to run with it. This is cheaper than the QM2000 and comes with different frame creation software and none of the free shows that come with the QM2000...

Cypher Live is a unit containing an FB3, with an enhanced version of Live Pro. The actual enhancement mentioned is the ability to control diffraction gratings, but only those diffraction gratings in Neo Laser projectors. It comes in a fancy desktop box which won't offer you any real useful features above the FB3 itself. Plus from personal experience Neo Laser support is terrible, they have had my box for over a year now with no real contact. But I might just be the unlucky one

If you just want to control the laser live, then the FB3 with Live Pro is the way forward, if you want to be able to create complex frames and animations yourself, then the QM2000 is the way forward.

Live Pro has the ability to be controlled by up to 4 MIDI controllers and you can also use a PC Joystick for position control. Personally, I run Live Pro in dual screen mode, with the cues (animations, effects etc) on a touch screen and the faders, rotary controls etc being run off a Novation Remote Zero SL MIDI Console... Check out my review here: http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...light=novation...

As well as using an audio input as Buffo explained, you can use a beat timer built into the software and tap the beats in, this gives you freedom to run effects in time with the beat and toggle the timer on and off for sweeping effects in the breakdowns etc...

The floating images are created using a scrim, which is a sheet of sharktooth gauze type material, or if the venue is suitable, a water screen. If you are going to use a scrim in a public venue, make sure it is certified fireproof. The effects in the video are lissajous (Abstract) effects, many of which are included in the default Live Pro workspace that comes with the software on the FB3 or QM2000. Both versions contain an abstract generator to create your own lissajous patterns...

Hope that answers your questions
Mark

[Jem]

A bit confused by the Pangolin Live Pro / Cypher Live Pro issues and also a bit confused on
the actual pricing of Pangolin Live Pro.

Says on the Pangolin Website :-

LivePRO is available free for LD2000 Professional users. If you have the Basic or Intro versions, you can still get LivePRO for only $695

So do you have to buy Basic or Intro as well as the Live Pro and the FB3 hardware ???

LivePRO is an additional program to LD2000 basic and intro. It is included with LD200 Professional.

Can't get over the Pangolin Controller costing £1800 either - must be cheaper one's around.

Yes, there are cheaper ones around. However, if you have the budget for it save yourself a load of grief (and wasted money) and go straight for the Pangolin. There are many (including me) who have worked their way up through various software/control packages and have ended up with Pangolin. The general consensus is if you have the funds go straight for Pangolin

Once you've seen and used LivePRO you'll understand why it costs what it does. Also, the service you'll receive from Pangolin is absolutely second to none, add to that free program updates and you know you're on to a winner

Cheers

Jem

[Insanity]

Also, the service you'll receive from Pangolin is absolutely second to none, add to that free program updates and you know you're on to a winner

Cheers

Jem

Forgot to mention that...

Pangolin support is probably the best in the business, in some instances the CEO himself will chip in and help you out.. Now that *IS* service...

Mark

[Jem]

Hey Mark

You beat me with the reply by a couple of minutes

You're answer is so much more complete than mine, nice one

Jem

[SUBZERO]

Hi Guys - thanks for all the replies ! Good to see your forum is thriving !

So in short, i should be able to buy an FB3, with just a Live Pro licence (and top notch pangolin support) which will come with loads of animated patterns etc in the LP Workspace which can all be controlled via a Remote Zero or similar.

I wasn't sure if i had to buy Intro or Basic QM2000 licence to run Live Pro on as an add-on.

Thats where the confusion was, but think i understand now.

So can i use a remote zero with a Pc joystick for positioning at the same time then ?

I'm thinking i want to get things like an animated osolating sine wave - then using the remote zero i can cycle the colours, change the size and rotation of the sine wave whilst the other hand is controlling the X/Y position via joystick control, so i am able to pan it down on to the crowd, or bounce it around to the beat of the music if i want ?

Just want to recreate what i saw a Fabric nightclub really. That's what this is all about !

With regards to pricing are these the approximate prices so i don't get ripped off.

Live Pro - £500 max
FB3-XE - £400 max
Remote Zero - £200 max
PC Joystick - £30 max

So for around £1200 inc delivery i should be able to put on a Live Pro show.

Do i need anything else ? - i have a 25 meter ILDA standard cable and of course
a Laserworld PRO500 RGB that claims to be ILDA standard.

I see Pangolin offer a full 90 money back guarantee if it doesn't work etc but
i'm assuming it'll be fairly easy to set up etc - i'm fairly into technology but no
doubt will be back asking dumb a$$ questions !

The saving starts here - will get it going and upload some video's one day.

Cheers for the advice.

J.

[Jem]

Hi Guys - thanks for all the replies ! Good to see your forum is thriving !

You're welcome

So in short, i should be able to buy an FB3, with just a Live Pro licence (and top notch pangolin support) which will come with loads of animated patterns etc in the LP Workspace which can all be controlled via a Remote Zero or similar.

That's pretty much correct. LivePRO currently comes with Glen Turner's Playtime 2004 workspace. However, for those who live outside Australia he now has a 2007 workspace which is more comprehensive. Having said that, there's more than enough to get you going in the 2004 workspace and I would suggest you stick with that until you have at least mastered the basics.

I wasn't sure if i had to buy Intro or Basic QM2000 licence to run Live Pro on as an add-on.

Thats where the confusion was, but think i understand now.

If all you're going to do is live shows then an FB3 and LivePRO fits the bill pretty well. However, if you're going to want to develop your own shows etc you may be better off going with a QM2000/LD2000 setup. If you get a QM2000.Net system it can be controlled from a distance away using CAT5 network cable. The QM2000 system is allegedly much more robust than the FB3 and is about as good as it gets in the laser world

So can i use a remote zero with a Pc joystick for positioning at the same time then ?

Yes, a USB joystick works just fine wtih a MIDI controller.

I'm thinking i want to get things like an animated osolating sine wave - then using the remote zero i can cycle the colours, change the size and rotation of the sine wave whilst the other hand is controlling the X/Y position via joystick control, so i am able to pan it down on to the crowd, or bounce it around to the beat of the music if i want ?

You should be able to do all that with the MIDI controller, just set one of the sliders to control X/Y position, that's what i've done with mine

Just want to recreate what i saw a Fabric nightclub really. That's what this is all about !

With regards to pricing are these the approximate prices so i don't get ripped off.

Live Pro - £500 max
FB3-XE - £400 max
Remote Zero - £200 max
PC Joystick - £30 max

So for around £1200 inc delivery i should be able to put on a Live Pro show.

Do i need anything else ? - i have a 25 meter ILDA standard cable and of course
a Laserworld PRO500 RGB that claims to be ILDA standard.

The UK dealers for Pangolin kit are James and Julie Stewart at Laservisuals, you may want to contact them directly. One advantage of buying through them is that you can benefit from thier extensive knowledge and you'll have no problem with customs duty etc. You really ought to support the UK dealers if possible. James and Julie are a really decent couple who work hard in the laser entertainment business, they need your support to survive

I see Pangolin offer a full 90 money back guarantee if it doesn't work etc but
i'm assuming it'll be fairly easy to set up etc - i'm fairly into technology but no
doubt will be back asking dumb a$$ questions !

The saving starts here - will get it going and upload some video's one day.

Cheers for the advice.

J.

I doubt whether anyone has ever taken advantage of the 90 day money back guarantee. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with either the Pangolin equipment or service.

Cheers

Jem

[danielbriggs]

Mark, you should be on commission from Pangolin - great explanation

Jem; looks like I need to add a Midi controller to the bottom of my shopping list. They look like they can add a lot of depth to LivePro (should arrive in the next day or two!)

I'll be 100% honest here - and at UKLM4 I thought "what's the point in a midi controller, just use the controls onscreen." after seeing a couple. But I can start to see through that premise quite quickly now

I Googled your Midi controller, and it looks awesome!
Why on earth it has motorised sliders I do not know -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PICs-JRQ0lQ&fmt=18

But I've still got to get some red and blue before I go buying "accessories"...

Dan

[SUBZERO]

Sweet - thanks Jem - really appreciate all your comments etc.

That's it - i'm fired up and going down to see the bank manager tomorrow - see if i can get some cash off him ! I need this system in my life i think !

I own my own business too, so i'll give them a call and see if they can do me a good deal.

Thanks alot guys, you've made my decission easier than i thought it would be !

Cheers

[SUBZERO]

What do you make of this bit of kit then ?

Remote SL MKII

http://www.novationmusic.com/product...roller/sl_mkii

Do you think that joystick on the left can be configured to
move the laser beam around. Save me having to log a joystick
around with the midi controller.

Seems like it only has one bank of LCD screen above the
turnable knobs, rather than have 2 like the Remote Zero.
(above the knobs and sliders)

The new Remote Zero MKII also does away with the
LCD above the sliders - wonder why that is ?

The older Remote SL has the dual LCD's.

http://www.novationmusic.com/product...ller/remote_sl

Older model doesn't have automap 3 so i take it it's alot harder
to set up etc.

More decissions to be made !

[SUBZERO]

And then i found this !!!

http://www.chemical-records.co.uk/sc...ck=REMOTE37LTD

You think this will do the job.

Twin LCD's - Automap 3 - Joystick too ?

Expensive but could be worth it.