Pangolin overpriced?

[flecom]

I don't know anything about Pangolin's internal workings but I have to say that on the face of it I agree entirely with you Gary.

This isn't Microsoft where there are x billion users worldwide, I believe on the FB3 there are something like 8,000 sold worldwide. Thats not many users to keep a large company with expensive programmers going for years between new product releases.

People have to be realistic. I was someone who always moaned in the past about the cost of Pangolin's products, mainly because I have no money to spend on this hobby. However I have to admit I was wrong. When you look at it in the cold light of day, this is a niche industry.

@Flecom, on the one hand I can see where you're coming from. On the other hand would changing the model to paid updates be popular? You might possibly save, but how many other users are using 4 or more projectors? Many hobbyists on LD are using one. Others are using 2 and an ILDA splitter. I'd gamble to say that paid updates would hit many more people than pay upfront with free updates as on the current business model. Maybe you're answer lies with FB's. I don't know what software they currently work with but I do know BIll usually takes these with him to tradeshows to do his demos with, presumably because of their small size. If thye're good enough for his shows then I'm going to guess there's some mileage in them for your hardware purposes.

ya but it hurts that I can buy 3 FB3's for the price of my single QM, and the FB3 is quickly catching up in usefulness with the upcoming release (some day?) of QS2... and livepro on the FB3 is pretty much the same (and what I would use with multiple projectors anyway)

when I asked bill years ago about buying just a QM card without any software he told me they were not a hardware company, now in this thread he says they are hardware-centric.. so which is it?

Whew - FINALLY!

I was afraid we might have to go a full weekend without some sort of subtle Pangolin bashin' taking place!
I hate it when I have to hang out on the laserdude forum to catch up on the latest Pangolin / ILDA / Microsoft conspiracy theories...

Hey, everybody knows that the QM boards are really just $20 worth of parts programmed by some senior at a local community college, and all that extra money the Pango team uses is to finance their eyetalian sports cars and private jets.

One thing 20 years with Uncle taught me -
Anything worth having, oughtta' be free, dang it!!

yes obviously I think it should all be free, I think bill should immediately send me a box of 1000 QM cards... way to add something useful to the discussion

[Stuka]

Liberal use of smiley faces and sarcasm is meant to basically agree with what most folks in this thread have already been saying!

I, too, would love to be able to afford multiple QM's, but I don't think that's a realistic expectation for most of us that aren't in the biz on a near full-time basis.
I also realize that is part of the price of ownership of quality equipment in a very small niche hobby / business that can't be supported by trips to the local Walmart.

I''m just sayin'...

[flecom]

Liberal use of smiley faces and sarcasm is meant to basically agree with what most folks in this thread have already been saying!

I, too, would love to be able to afford multiple QM's, but I don't think that's a realistic expectation for most of us that aren't in the biz on a near full-time basis.
I also realize that is part of the price of ownership of quality equipment in a very small niche hobby / business that can't be supported by trips to the local Walmart.

I''m just sayin'...

I would agree but the FB3 disproves that...

most of the "in the biz" people are going to be using livepro most of the time, and thats pretty much exactly the same on the FB3 as it is on a QM2000

[White-Light]

ya but it hurts that I can buy 3 FB3's for the price of my single QM, and the FB3 is quickly catching up in usefulness with the upcoming release (some day?) of QS2.

Patience grasshopper, the grass will be greener for it and your LEM (ons) will be bighter too.

[heroic]

You guys need to be realistic. Do you think Pangolin is selling tons of these devices? I seriously doubt it.

At $1500 for a glorified sound card based on a processor intended to run washing machines, I doubt it too. The reason the chinese are eating their breakfast is because their stuff is an awful lot cheaper because it was designed more recently.

[300EVIL]

Oh, come on guys... The only reason this thread exists is because Pangolin makes a quality, sought after product. If there were better options other than Pangolin or Pangolin sucked, nobody would care. Is Pangolin perfect? No, nothing is... Microsoft sells a shit load of software and all of their products have issues, quirks and whatnot. You can't make everyone happy.

Why can Pangolin charge $1500 for a product.... Because it's a niche market and they are the best, people will pay and they deserve to make a profit.

As for Pangolin's sales. I cannot confirm or deny, but I can tell you I've been to Pangolin HQ and have seen their QM2000 assembly line. I can honestly say I've seen hundreds and hundreds of QM's NOT collecting dust and in the making.

[flecom]

Patience grasshopper, the grass will be greener for it and your LEM (ons) will be bighter too.

whats greener? bill stated quite clearly that LivePRO development is pretty much non existent... as far as they are concerned LivePRO is "done"

so if livepro is the same on the QM as it is on the FB3 why would I buy 3 QM cards for $4500 when I could buy three FB3's for the price of one QM card?

Why can Pangolin charge $1500 for a product.... Because it's a niche market and they are the best, people will pay and they deserve to make a profit.

I am not arguing that they are charging too much for pangolin, I am saying that they are charging too much to expand its functionality as far as multiple projectors...

microsoft sells tons of copies of windows, sure, but I dont have to buy a second or third copy of windows to add 2 or 3 printers, or 2 or 3 monitors etc...

the genie is out of the bottle, QM cards are becoming obsolete and are quite frankly a pain to deal with (find a modern laptop with a PCI slot in a dock, or hell with a dock period)

if you want to use livepro, they are too expensive when you have the FB3 as an option

beyond is going to use the QM as a framebuffer so that ram wont serve a purpose further making the QM kind of silly...

honestly I think if pangolin really wants beyond to be a success (and this pains me), kill the QM2000...

sell the fb3 and just charge for beyond as a piece of software thats meant to run on a piece of hardware...

say, fb3 w/QS = $500

fb3 w/Beyond "intro" or whatever = $1500 and so on

and if your worried about piracy just tie the software to the serial number of the interface like they do now with the QM cards... simple

[300EVIL]

microsoft sells tons of copies of windows, sure, but I dont have to buy a second or third copy of windows to add 2 or 3 printers, or 2 or 3 monitors etc...

Ah, but you DO have to buy a new license for every computer and you don't get to update all your "Vista Home" to "Win 7 Ultimate" when you buy one copy.

Remember, 1 Pro card + 3 intro cards = 4 pro cards.

Does this make us all millionaires and Pangolin affordable? No, but it's a product that works and does it's job better than other competing products. If someone comes out with a better product for $399.00, I'll buy it! Until then, you can't beat it, Even for $1500.

Also, Don't forget you can easily spend $1500+ on many other computer devices such as a graphics card, SCSI RAID card or other specialty controllers.

I agree the PCI card thing is fairly outdated but it doesn't mean it's obsolete, yet.

BTW,,, the .NET box is a great way to work around no PCI slot issues.

How would you like spending $5K on a QM2K Pro just to have the new QM3K come out next week and they no longer support your expensive ass product? I'd think that would suck. (Although a lot of companies do this)

[White-Light]

whats greener? bill stated quite clearly that LivePRO development is pretty much non existent... as far as they are concerned LivePRO is "done"

I don't remember seeing that quote. Last quote I saw was that Live Pro will be around for some time yet.

QS is no Live Pro, its very capable but it doesn't have the options or in depth capabilities of Live Pro. In addition QS has taken a step back in one area for release to make it slightly less capable.

I can't see anyone quitting Live Pro for QS, believe me there are limitations.

I love QS and its light years ahead of the competition at this level, but I can see its limitations and if I had the choice and was using it professionally, I'd probably eventually buy and take the time to learn Live Pro.

QS is great for what its intended for - Quick Shows at high level amateur or small club level but it simply isn't going to provide the capabilities or control of Live Pro when it comes to large complex effects or shows. The trade off is ease of use.

The reason why QS is late is because its had some pretty heavy bug testing with a view to getting it as near bug free at release as possible. Thats what's making the grass greener, a much more and hopefully totally bug free release.

There have also been some things added as well as the one taken away although some changes maybe subtle and not immediately obvious.

I'll make a prediction now, and that is Live Pro and LD owners will be buying Beyond in droves when it comes out not QS.

At $1500 for a glorified sound card based on a processor intended to run washing machines, I doubt it too. The reason the chinese are eating their breakfast is because their stuff is an awful lot cheaper because it was designed more recently.

I think thats a bit of a misdescription but anyway it does its job otherwise Pangolin wouldn't be the best in the industry, and whats to say that Beyond won't also come with a hardware update to reflect more recent development? I don't know if it will or it won't as the existing hardware perfroms fine, but given that the FB3 was upgraded for QS release I wouldn't rule it out.

[norty303]

I don't remember seeing that quote. Last quote I saw was that Live Pro will be around for some time yet

I think by 'done' he meant complete rather than obsolete/discontinued.

i have to say, unless you want to do graphics shows synced to music, I cannot see the attraction of QM over FB3 with LivePro.

Given the recent new version of FB3, I think that Pangolin may well be moving to a 'middle ground' solution, that is pwerful yet affordable. However, you wouldn't want to mention this to your 'Pro' customers too far in advance as it doesn't take too much imagination to see the fallout... [conspiratorial wink]