8W RGB and New Modules. New Company: AtenLaser

[White-Light]

I really can't see the point in over driving the reds when 700mw diodes are only about $32 each at retail (DTR's shop). I'd have thought the TEC's would have cost more than the diodes! Would it not be better simply to add in 2 extra diodes and under drive the lot to give the buyer peace of mind?

[slicklasers]

Adding more diodes means a bigger beam….[/QUOTE] see the point in over driving the reds when 700mw diodes are only about $32 each at retail (DTR's shop). I'd have thought the TEC's would have cost more than the diodes! Would it not be better simply to add in 2 extra diodes and under drive the lot to give the buyer peace of mind?[/QUOTE]

[jors]

Yes, exactly that.
But adding only diodes is not enough! you forget diode housing, diode lens, driver, pbs,, mirror mounts, bounce dielectric mirrors, waveplate, tec, baseplate, tec baseplate, overall milling, telescope, design, lens supports, magnets, apertures, R&D, building, tuning...so this is far from just adding two diodes.

Anyway, we go for the highest (and safely) RED power obtainable at <5mm beam, this is a quad max with actual red multimode diode specs. Even more, at 3w, we get a great white 8w RGB balance, not those very 'blueish' whites due low power reds.

Adding more diodes means a bigger beam….

[norty303]

Al, the 700mw diodes are t really any different to the P73 which is why everyone is still using the P73. They can both be driven the same. Again, overdriving is contextual. You need to define the use pattern and the 500 everyone goes for is the CW rating which is NOT how we use them in laser shows.

Has anyone ever reported popping a P73?

[White-Light]

There's a thread on here where someone did. Anyway, doesn't matter it was just a suggestion. Personally, I prefer diodes under driven, it's a confidence thing.

[sean]

There's a thread on here where someone did. Anyway, doesn't matter it was just a suggestion. Personally, I prefer diodes under driven, it's a confidence thing.

Yes confidence, for hobbyist overdriving is fun, for commercial modules this is adventure

[sbk]

IMHO for a commercial product there is *no way* to advertise power with overdrived diodes, sorry, even if it is considered sure to do it. Doing so is not fair against other manufacturers which do not overdrive diodes, and is not fair against the customers because diodes *will* last less long (and nobody has an idea how much...).

Pulsed power does not really apply here, as pulsed is <33% which is easily exceeded in show use (put a scope on your DAC and look at waveforms!). And the datasheet says clearly that those pulsed or CW specs, which are absolute max ratings btw, should not be exceeded even instant time, and this is for a reason.

You should rather propose to the end customer to boost the diodes up to "xxx W" if he want, at his own risks. When I buy a computer I don't want to buy an overclocked CPU from factory!! But if I like to play with fire I know I can overclock it myself

Just my 0.02 cents

[jors]

Thanks Sbk for your comments,
Well, its missing a key variable in your equation: this is T temperature. Diode specs is @25ºC. Our diodes are cooled @18ºC constant, this is why we can safely go near 1W, and this is fair, as we share all the tech info.

IMHO for a commercial product there is *no way* to advertise power with overdrived diodes, sorry, even if it is considered sure to do it. Doing so is not fair against other manufacturers which do not overdrive diodes, and is not fair against the customers because diodes *will* last less long (and nobody has an idea how much...).

Pulsed power does not really apply here, as pulsed is <33% which is easily exceeded in show use (put a scope on your DAC and look at waveforms!). And the datasheet says clearly that those pulsed or CW specs, which are absolute max ratings btw, should not be exceeded even instant time, and this is for a reason.

You should rather propose to the end customer to boost the diodes up to "xxx W" if he want, at his own risks. When I buy a computer I don't want to buy an overclocked CPU from factory!! But if I like to play with fire I know I can overclock it myself

Just my 0.02 cents

[Phritzler]

Hi Jors!
The modules aren´t looking that bad. There are just 3 points :
1.) You use more mirrors - sure its the easier way to adjust, but don´t forget you have more loss with these. Each mirrors means about 2% loss (arround). And the system can easyer deadjust becouse of to much added mirrors and beamways.
2.) You aren´t right with the diodes overpower : Sure the diode DIE itself can handle a bit more power if you cool right, but thats only the secondary problem.
The primary problem are the coated facettings of the chip (the resonator). These can´t handle this power in showuse very long, even not 1W instead of 700mW. And don´t forget about the losses you have in your system.
Collimators, PBS, Spatial filter, cylindrical lenses, 2 mirrors (and one for one diode). With that setup you drive the diodes at about 22-25% more than the output is.
We tested the 700mW diodes to (as all other on the market avaiable SM and MM diodes which are usuable for showuse) and got different results.
This diodes can´t handle that a long time, even if you cool it to 0°C. The key are the facettings, not the power of the die (and just a bit the temp. difference between diode DIE -> Diode case -> your Diode/optic mount -> block for diodemount -> module baseplate with the tec under it). That do a temp. difference of about 5-7° easily from the die to the outer case...
3.) Spatial filtering : Very nice solution for correct the influences / "crap" from the beam. But be sure, you can´t do a TEM00 beam out of MM diodes - even not with a spatial filter! You can correct the beam a bit, but you can´t cheat physics.
Sorry for my bad english, I didn´t want you to take the inputs false.
Best regards,
Phillip

[jors]

Thanks Phillip, sorry my english too
I have not mentioned TEM00 at any time, not me!
Well, sorry again but we don't want to take part on an "OVERDRIVE" vs "NO OVERDRIVE" debate. There are lots of posts here on PL about this, and I'm pretty sure I've read almost all.
Many VIPs here think Overdrive is safe UNDER CERTAIN circumstances, just like we think, so there are promoters & detractors like most things in life, hey! and don't make me wrong, this is good!
Regards,